Warren, Piper and the Bloggers that Hate Them

Today I talk about all the aspects surrounding John Pipers invitation to Rick Warren to speak at the 2010 Desiring God National Conference.

http://theologytoday.podbean.com/2010/04/14/warren-piper-and-the-bloggers-that-hate-them/

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13 thoughts on “Warren, Piper and the Bloggers that Hate Them

  1. Hi All,

    My favorite quote from the above linked article?

    There are no advocates in the “watchblog” category who have ever issued an apology or a retraction for anything they have every published on their blogs. Some of them anathemaciously delete posts they discover they ought to be ashamed of – usually without comment – but you can’t find them coming back and demonstrating that they are actually protestants. They are more like Anabaptist prophet-kings who, in lieu of an overtly-stated belief in their personal inspiration by the Holy Spirit, hide behind the words “reformation” and “scripture” and “orthodoxy” as if their interpretation of those words and all Scripture is both encyclopedic and perfect — de facto inspired, but not that you can get them to say it. These are the ones I am talking about, and these are the ones who comprise nine-and-a-half of every 10 blogs which are ranting about “discernment”. Look to them.

    I can think of a few bloggers the above quote describes…..can’t you?

    Phil

  2. Phil P,

    Me to….me too!

    Do you remember when I thought the 24,000 dollar “commode” Joyce Meyer bought was a “toilet to sit her pampered backside on” turned out to be a french table?

    Ouch!

    Phil

    • I thought his point about the anonymous thing was very good and one you have been making for quite some time. To me the weak part of his arguement was the accountablity part. While I agree everyone should be accountable especially to the Word, if you are part of a corrupt system the fact you have elders doesn’t make any difference. I would much rather hear someone defend their thoughts or actions with scripture. A church or seminary with poor doctrine is no covering. That is like saying, “I’m right because these people agree with me”. Also the fact he used a handle himself, even though he says he had 100 employees was lame. I could use muleskinner as a handle, after all I do have mules, but that’s still anonymous? He is right about the retraction part and I do enjoy their site, although there is a financial component to what they do, which always raises questions to me.

    • Hi Boyd,

      He’s referring to moral and legal accountability and “coram deo” and his ilk have neither. He/she/it can say whatever he/she/it likes and act however he/she/it likes and there is nothing anyone can do about it….or so they think.

      You’ve seen how “defcon” misrepresented me right? I’m not the only one these “christians” have done that to and no matter how many times they’ve been corrected the garbage is still up there. Granted they were egged on by a third parties anger but they should still be responsible for what happens on their site and they aren’t because they know they don’t have to be.

      I agree all should be accountable to the Word and the Word clearly states that we are not to bear false witness against our neighbor yet there are many (anonymous as well as people who do identify themselves) that do this publicly everyday and when called on it they basically tell you to jump in a lake or dare you to sue them. There’s no one to tell them to stop and that’s not good.

      Its common knowledge that “centouriOn” is Frank Turk and that’s been known for years. Write to him and ask him who his pastor is and he will tell you. I can’t say the same for “defcon” and I speak from personal experience on that one. There are others who’ve asked them also with the same result.

      Even if a church or seminary has poor doctrine at least you can go to them and plead your case in the hopes that the blogger would attempt to be more responsible. Many of these bloggers don’t even have that type of accountability. That’s scary.

      Society has methods of holding men and women responsible for the things they say and do. Get caught breaking the law and you pay a price as we are accountable to that law. That law protects society and while the law still gets broken it does prevent most people from breaking the law out of fear of being punished. The “coram deos” of the internet world don’t even have this type of fear because no one knows who they are……or so they think.

      I can tell you there is NO such thing as “anonymous” on the Internet. While its difficult to catch an anonymous slanderer it isn’t impossible. Much like robbers who wear masks to hide their identity in order to break the law many are eventually caught because they are reckless. All it takes is someone diligent enough to follow the tracks of a “Pilgrim” or a “Desert Pastor” because they all leave trails, especially when they think no ones looking.

      Stay tuned……

      Phil

  3. Phil N., I listened to the entire podcast. I have to say the point you made about us not knowing what was going to happen at the conference and we shouldn’t anything until then was right. Let me tell you a story.

    When I was still attending a Baptist church, the board and pastor invited a Big Wig from the local Kingdom Hall to preach an evening sermon. AND just as you’d expect for weeks before the appointed time all the little old busy-body ladies and the old men who wanted to be more spiritual than anyone else in the church were in a fit. They went on and on. Just like you, the pastor told them to wait and see. Fortunately for the pastor, there was no business meeting scheduled before the night the JW guy (Roger was his name) was to speak. I say that’s a good thing because they were going to take a vote and they had enough to fire the pastor! And all that without waiting. What a bunch of bigots!

    Well, when the night came we did all the usual things, sing the hymns, take the evening offering, etc. Under the Baptist facade, though, the tension was thick. I looked across the pews and could see that one old guy was ready to take notes to trap Roger in something he said. “What a jerk,” I thought to myself. My heart was actually beating so hard I could feel it when Roger walked up to the podium.

    He started by saying good evening and thanking the pastor for inviting him to speak and explain just why JW’s don’t believe Jesus was God. Jesus was great and a holy man. He was even a prophet. He just wasn’t God. He was created.

    That’s went it happened. All heck broke out!!!!! Four deacons rushed the pulpit area and wrestled Roger to the ground. Mics went everywhere, making electonic squawks and squeeks and thuds. I heard one of the deacons cuss when Roger bit his hand. They ended up with one deacon on each arm and each leg, carrying Roger to the baptismal. Roger was struggling, kicking, flailing. He had a bloody nose.

    Two other deacons had headed for the baptismal tank and opened up the front. The pastor was already inside. The four deacons on Roger tried throwing him in the tank but couldn’t. The other two headed in and helped. In went Roger, head first. One of his kicking feet hit the pastor in the face, knocking off his glasses, and the pastor went down in the water, too.

    Water was all over the place! Pastor and Roger came back up, sputtering and coughing. Roger was in better shape. Pastor’s glasses were hanging half off one ear with one lense cracked, the other gone.

    But Roger! You should have seen Roger. His face started glowing. He was giggling. Then he stopped like a statue. He slowly started feeling his whole body from his upper chest to his knees as if he was looking for lost keys or an undiscovered of wound of some sort. The whole place was silent. Then Roger started saying something under his breath. No one could hear. Everyone, even the pastor, leaned in straining to hear. Eventually he became a little louder and a little louder…”Jesus IS God. Jesus IS God….” over and over until he was shouting at the top of his lungs.

    Soon the whole congregation was chanting with him like they were in a strange sort of political rally. Ladies and the deacons were crying. The pastor was speaking in tongues–yes, a Babtist pastor. The building was shaking. Teenagers were being slain in the Spirit and kids were promising their parents never to be naughty again.

    The next day the whole town was in awe. The Kingdom Hall and the Catholic church were being boarded up and had for-sale signs. The bars were being demolished by wrecking crews and Roger had all the Kingdom Hall folks over at Pastor’s door to ask how to sign up for new converts class.

    Yep. That really happened. So we’d better wait and see if John Piper might have a secret plan to convert Rick Warren.

    You never know.

    Really,
    Phil Perkins.

    • Phil P,

      Thank you. If Warren speaks at that conference unchecked I PROMISE you I will blast away…..with righteous judgment as we will have all the facts and I promise you your story will look like a little girls tea party in comparison….

      Phil

    • Phil N.,
      We have all the facts. Piper is sinning. That story was satire. Here’s the point of the story: Do you really think there’s a “plan”? What is this evangelism by James Bond 007? Do we have a button that activates a super weapon from our MG to save the false teacher if he just gets close enough? If there was a “plan” to save RW, how does that excuse Piper’s sin? Giving a false teacher a platform to allow him to teach is sin. Doing it because there’s a “plan” to evangelize the guy is still sin. That’s like the old “dating evangelistically”. Remember that? A cult in SoCal (I think) did that. Young ladies would go out and seduce men they met in bars, and then try to get them into the cult after a night of sin. They had a “plan”, too. Sin is sin. It doesn’t become unsin by making up a canard like this.

      I’m sorry that wasn’t clear. I don’t have time right now to put much down, but in that podcast you made two good points. 1. Anonymity and teaching Christian doctrine are mutually exclusive. I think it’s actually childish, with all the pretend names, too. What is that? Are we twelve? I’m not. 2. Some ODMs have lied at times to win debate points. I hate that and on my blog I don’t allow it. I’ll call a guy on it and kick him off the blog even if I agree with the point he’s making. A lie is a lie even if it’s for a good doctrinal reason. As stewards of the truth we can’t do that. It’s hideous. I kicked Frand Turk off for that very thing. (He was pretending to be an expert in the languages and wouldn’t own up to it.)

      As far as the rest is concerned, I was aghast. I do ODM work. I don’t lie about folks. I never have. I don’t intend to start. At times I’ve had my facts wrong. I was man enough to retract and apologize. You spoke about folks that “hate” Piper as if they were devils or mentally damaged. I’m not ever going to say that there aren’t ODMs who are out of line and just mean. But I despise John Piper and the sort of thing he has done. It makes me livid. If he repents and returns to the gospel, I’ll be on the forgiveness bandwagon with pon-poms and a poodle skirt, though he should be out of the pulpit for a time just like a pastor who did any other type of sin, like embezzelment or adultery. But as it stands, he’s opposing God and God’s truth. I seek to be a friend of God. That means I can’t be a friend of Piper until he repents. There’s a choice to make here.

      Biblically, I can take you to plenty of passages that show the lack of anger against sin is sin. I’ll have to get back to you later this weekend or next week. Or better yet, I’m getting ready to write about this very issue on my blog. It was planned and scheduled long before this last trash from Piper, but it’s exactly about the sin Piper is knee deep in, so I’ll probably bring him into the discussion. If you’d like to read it, I’ll be flattered. It’s important. Hopefully, it’ll be up next week. It won’t be done in only one installment.

      Hoping you still love me, my friend,
      Phil Perkins.

    • Phil P,

      Phil P
      We have all the facts. Piper is sinning. That story was satire. Here’s the point of the story: Do you really think there’s a “plan”? What is this evangelism by James Bond 007? Do we have a button that activates a super weapon from our MG to save the false teacher if he just gets close enough? If there was a “plan” to save RW, how does that excuse Piper’s sin? Giving a false teacher a platform to allow him to teach is sin. Doing it because there’s a “plan” to evangelize the guy is still sin. That’s like the old “dating evangelistically”. Remember that? A cult in SoCal (I think) did that. Young ladies would go out and seduce men they met in bars, and then try to get them into the cult after a night of sin. They had a “plan”, too. Sin is sin. It doesn’t become unsin by making up a canard like this.

      Haha….I knew it was satire but it doesn’t change my opinion or my position on this. Has Warren actually spoken yet? Nope and until he does I will wait and see. The cult you are referring to is Moses Berg’s “Children of God and what the ladies did was called “flirty fishing”.

      I’m sorry that wasn’t clear. I don’t have time right now to put much down, but in that podcast you made two good points. 1. Anonymity and teaching Christian doctrine are mutually exclusive. I think it’s actually childish, with all the pretend names, too. What is that? Are we twelve? I’m not. 2. Some ODMs have lied at times to win debate points. I hate that and on my blog I don’t allow it. I’ll call a guy on it and kick him off the blog even if I agree with the point he’s making. A lie is a lie even if it’s for a good doctrinal reason. As stewards of the truth we can’t do that. It’s hideous. I kicked Frand Turk off for that very thing. (He was pretending to be an expert in the languages and wouldn’t own up to it.)

      You were clear and I did get your point…..

      As far as the rest is concerned, I was aghast. I do ODM work. I don’t lie about folks. I never have. I don’t intend to start. At times I’ve had my facts wrong. I was man enough to retract and apologize. You spoke about folks that “hate” Piper as if they were devils or mentally damaged. I’m not ever going to say that there aren’t ODMs who are out of line and just mean. But I despise John Piper and the sort of thing he has done. It makes me livid. If he repents and returns to the gospel, I’ll be on the forgiveness bandwagon with pon-poms and a poodle skirt, though he should be out of the pulpit for a time just like a pastor who did any other type of sin, like embezzelment or adultery. But as it stands, he’s opposing God and God’s truth. I seek to be a friend of God. That means I can’t be a friend of Piper until he repents. There’s a choice to make here.

      Your livid. OK. But is your anger controlling what you say and how you say it? Do you get so angry at an opponent that you purposely lie about the individual or purposely misrepresent what they say? No, you don’t there are those in the “Christian Blogosphere” who do and even admit it to people. That’s who I was referring to and yes, you should be aghast at what goes on in the name of Christ these days.

      Biblically, I can take you to plenty of passages that show the lack of anger against sin is sin. I’ll have to get back to you later this weekend or next week. Or better yet, I’m getting ready to write about this very issue on my blog. It was planned and scheduled long before this last trash from Piper, but it’s exactly about the sin Piper is knee deep in, so I’ll probably bring him into the discussion. If you’d like to read it, I’ll be flattered. It’s important. Hopefully, it’ll be up next week. It won’t be done in only one installment.

      Hate the sin yes but hate the sinner too? Of course I will read your article just as I have read every article you’ve written for the past 3 years….

      Hoping you still love me, my friend,
      Phil Perkins.

      Why wouldn’t I? Because we disagree? Oh, I think I have 2 more students for ya!

      Phil

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