I was going to post this on the site where the comment was directed towards me but because of the length, and the likelihood that it would be deleted I decided to post it here. The comment can be read in its entirety here.
I do know what REAL libel and REAL slander is and experienced far worse then you could ever imagine. But you keep playing the victim. It suits you.
Slander and Libel do come with the territory when dealing with heretics. Of course my posting and the last two podcasts referred to YOUR Slander and YOUR Libel. While I appreciate your past struggles with others I only speak for your Libel and Slander. Why is it not OK for a non Christian to Libel and Slander but its ok for YOU, a professing Christian to Libel and Slander others? That doesn’t make much sense does it?
Thanks for the “exegesis”. Regardless of how self serving and errant it was I did pay attention to what you have written and thank you for taking time from your busy day to allow me and others to see your skills. Maybe that was the REAL reason for my posting that blog post?
I find it HIGHLY hypocritical of you to demand that I be biblical when you sir have failed to demonstrate how you can make accusations against an elder without 2 or 3 witnesses which was the FOCUS of my last 2 podcasts. Care to share with your readers why you don’t have to be biblical or is that requirement for everyone else BUT you? I think I’m hearing crickets again.
Let’s take a look at why I produced those 2 podcasts in the first place and line that up with your “exegesis”……
(Mat 18:15) “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
Roderick’s Slander of Dr. Kenneth Talbot was public but I attempted to go to him privately because I didn’t want him to “worm” his way out of it by crying foul. He refused to interact with me and labeled me a “compromiser”.
(Mat 18:16) But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
This step was followed as well. Roderick refused to hear us and again he referred to me and others as “compromisers” and “sell outs”.
(Mat 18:17) If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Roderick refused to hear us so I went to “the church” and in this case the WWW because that’s the church Roderick “worships” in and where his libel and slander takes place on a daily basis.
Roderick is still refusing to hear us. We have not won our brother and now we are commanded to treat him like a “pagan” and a “tax collector” which is the opposite of a brother.
Lets move on shall we?
(1Co 5:9) I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people–
Paul’s getting to the bottom line and not just labeling sexual immorality as the only reason to cast someone out.
(1Co 5:10) not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
The above would not be Christian’s right. We expect unregenerate people to be immoral don’t we and we can associate with these people just not in Spiritual matters……
(1Co 5:11) But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat
Paul says we aren’t to associate with “brothers” like those mentioned above. Roderick Edwards is an unrepentant slanderer and we aren’t to associate with him at all and as Jesus said we are to treat him as a tax collector.
(1Co 5:12) What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside
Roderick claims to be a Christian and claims Hyper Preterists aren’t Christians yet pouts about why I’ve done my last 2 podcast’s about him. Paul says we are to judge the Christian and not the others but Roderick complains about me following Paul to the letter and he’d rather me expose the sins of the world as opposed to exposing his sins (Ephesians 5:11).
(1Co 5:13) God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
All biblical avenues have been employed to get Roderick Edwards to repent of his slanderous ways. His refusal to hear us and repent leaves us no choice but to expel this wicked man from among us.
Now, lets look at whether we should take someone like Roderick Edwards to court. This is what Roderick claims;
So, Phil if you want to take us to the law before unbelievers, just remember it is to YOUR shame, and YOUR lack of wisdom, and YOUR utter failure, and YOU would be the one doing wrong and cheating. — As these verses clearly point out. Phil, you would then be saying you have less respect for the Scriptures and for fellow Christians then you claim. I even respect the hyperpreterists more than you respect us, for I have never threatened to sue any of them, per chance some may actually be brothers in Christ. You sir are the one in the wrong and no amount of polling people on your site to see if they support your actions is going to change your direct violation of 1 Cor 6:4-8. Pray about it. (source)
Let’s look at 1 Corinthians 6, or at least verse 1 and see who should really be ashamed here shall we?
(1Co 6:1) If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?
Paul was writing to Christians here and he’s imploring them to not bring a fellow brother in Christ to court. Roderick says if I do that with him it would be to MY shame, MY lack of wisdom, MY utter failure and I would be wrong and cheating. He’s right. If I did this with a “brother” that is. The bible says Roderick Edwards is NOT our brother and WE should expel this wicked man and treat him like a heathen and a tax collector.
Not everyone claiming and professing Christianity actually is one. That’s why we are to “test all things” (1Thess 5:21) which includes the professing believers fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) to determine whether or not the professing Christian is a brother or not. Remember the words of Christ?
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Am I going to sue Roderick Edwards? No and it was never my intention to do so. I was merely using Roderick and his new best friend for the moment as an example of folks hiding behind a profession of Christianity and using Scripture as a “get out of jail free card” to escape accountability. As you witnessed that’s exactly what Roderick has attempted to do.
The bottom line here is this. We are to never sue a brother in Christ. Test all things to determine if the offending person is indeed a brother. Follow Matthew 18 to the letter and if the individual continues to sin against you expel him from among you. If the individual continues then don’t worry about 1Corinthians 6 because that’s for brothers and not for how we deal with those in the world.
Roderick has responded and you can read his entire response here. I felt the following certainly was interesting;
Phil Naessens, tennis coach in Corfu Greece and self-styled “exposer” has been trying to do all he can to make a name for himself among the hyperpreterists AND the Dr. Talbot-led “anti-hyperprets”. His latest effort is to do what Phil is known to do; insert himself into situations. For example, whereas MOST of the people combating hyperpreterism have a direct link to the hyperpreterist movement (often by being former hyperpreterists), unlike Phil who inserts himself into the “ministries” of folks like “Perry Noble”, “John Chisham”, “Tony Jones”, “Ken Silva”, “Chuck Smith”, “David Norris” and on & on. Whether these men are erroneous teachers is beside the point.
Anyhow, Phil has been trying to insert himself into the hyperpreterist issue. He thinks he has it all figured out — who is doing what and why. He thinks he has me and others pegged as the bad guys, even though recently Phil found out first hand, hyperpreterist leader Sam Frost had been perpetuating a major lie (ref). But Phil doesn’t care about the FACTS — he has a role to play after all.
I find the comment that I “insert myself into situations” sorta strange when all I’m doing is following the sage advice Roderick gave us all here.
I guess its hunky dory to insert oneself in someone’s business as long as it isn’t Roderick’s business!
One more thing; had I not inserted myself in the situation Roderick would have one less reason to attack Sam Frost. Considering that’s his mission on earth you’d think Roderick would thank me right? Guess not.