Nursing a Church Hurt Part 2 My Response to Robert Begnaud

Well, Mr. Begnaud has responded to my demand that he back up his allegations and accusations he leveled to his family “privately” then published for anyone with a modem and Internet access……I’ll address his response point by point;

Mr.Begnaud

Well, well , well Phil says I am a liar.  He says PROVE it! He let’s me know that he could sue me, but he won’t! Phil says “You have until 11:00pm Wednesday!  Guess Phil doesn’t care that I work for a living and I support a large family on one income, and it is in the middle of summer out here and as a Heating & Air Conditioning Contractor, I am kinda busy!  But of course Phil is doing all of this because he feels sorry for me.  Right?  Must be that sorrow that caused you to brag directly to me after making that six thousand dollar bet on my failure.  My, with friends like you, who needs enemies? And Phil calls Ingrid a “egotistical jackass”?

Phil

Ah, you have plenty of time to defame and slander when it suits you yet pout when called to bring facts to back up your accusations….and actually I do feel sorry for you……and I didn’t bet on your failure Robert…….I bet on that enormous ego of yours…….thanks again for proving me right……I’ve never called or referred to Ingrid Schlueter as a “jackass”……..have any quotes where I specifically said that about her or is this more of the same delusions I’ve come to expect from the pen and mouth of Robert Begnaud?

Mr. Begnaud

I hope you are listening Dorothy and Roderick and everyone of Phil Naessens defenders.  Dorothy asked the question, “when did Phil speak against small home churches”  Well Dorothy all the time if you are just listening, here are some examples.

Phil:

Dorothy wasn’t defending me Robert…..she asked you to back up your allegations you’ve made about me……and what does Roderick have to do with this?

Mr. Begnaud

Phil constantly, almost in every audio, refers to “them” the ODMS, the Bloggers, he has made it very clear that I am one of the “thems” he is talking about. The internet is the only way that small home churches can communicate their message to others, Phil has clearly expressed his hate and contempt for the internet, he does not like the fact that people such as myself can have a forum and not be shut out by the “Local Nicolaitan Church system”. On the audio “Devouring the Sheep” I quote, when he is talking about the “them guys”, people like me, he says “they appear to be bigger than what they are” . Phil’s answer to this? I quote, “Your main feeding should come from a local Church”   also he states in so many words, ODMs should be run by an “Ordained Elder”. Ordained by who Phil?  You?, The Mormons? A Word Faith Pastor?  Tell me Phil, who ordained Steve Lumbley?  I have heard other ministries criticize him for this very reason. Since I have not the approval of men, then, according to you my home church is invalid!

Phil

I don’t consider you an ODM or a blogger Robert…….you’re just a guy with a website………I express my “hate” towards folks that use the Internet to lie and defame Robert………I specifically address anonymous bloggers because they have zero accountability Robert……..

Robert…….I was referring to folks on the Internet claiming to be CEO’s and Presidents of ministries but when you do a little bit of research you find out its just him/her and no one else……I’ve never lumped you in with that and in fact I’d never heard of you until AFTER that show was made public…….and I would never consider you as an ODM…..

Your main feeding should come from a local church…..either home church or whatever and NOT from the Internet…….ODM’s should be run by an “ordained elder” is again a misrepresentation of what I said……something I’m getting quite tired of with you.

I don’t ordain anyone Robert……and the rest has absolutely nothing to do with the lies you’ve told about me……but I do find it interesting how you bring Steve Lumbley up all the time…..are you jealous of him too?

Mr. Begnaud;

According to you (Devouring the Sheep – audio) “the majority who have blogs, (that would be the “them people”, people like me) can’t teach a Sunday School class to five year olds” then later on you say “follow your Pastor”.  Of course, I can’t be a Pastor in my home, I don’t have a degree or any desire to learn Greek.  Right Phil? I need your approval or someone like you.  For your information there are small home churches all over the world that are led by a prayer and simple child like faith, by men who care about the souls of their family and their community.   They don’t need your approval Phil, they need God’s approval.

Phil;

You don’t have a blog now do you…….and as I said before that audio has noting to do with you as I hadn’t heard of you until AFTER the audio was made public…….and no I wouldn’t allow you to teach in any of the FIVE home churches I’ve planted in the last 7 years…..not because you don’t know Greek but because you don’t know what you are talking about…….biblical or otherwise as it concerns Christianity………

Mr. Begnaud

In “Unethical Christian Blogs” – audio you said “we should rely on our Pastors”, you said “Theology is a bridge” you want to get people to a “good church” run by “ordained Pastors”,  home churches do not have this, they meet in their front living room and open the Bible and ask to be led to God’s truth.  In the audio “Todd Bently is Back”  you claim “the only thing I like about Ken Silva is that he is an ordained Baptist pastor” then you criticize him in two ways 1) “he only teaches a Bible Study” 2) “how can you go from a congregation of 100 to 5 or 6 people in your Bible study”. DID YOU HEAR THAT Dorothy? He sure isn’t sounding like having 5 or 6 people in your bible study is a good thing, is he?  In your audio – “Cleaning up the mess” you are back at this “nursing a church hurt” and this time you point to a troubled young lady would gets caught in a internet lie to garner the sympathy of others. I guess in your perverted judgment, you lump me in with her, guess that is why the title is back.  Only problem is, I don’t lie! I tell the truth! And then you use the very same base argument, when you claim in this audio that you are approved of God because of your contributors.   Here we have it, the argument of size and numbers, involving the approval of men comes up in different ways, let’s just go over it specifically once again:

Phil

I said Theology Today was a bridge in reference to the issue of Full Preterism and I was thanking my contributors for helping me with that series…….and yes Robert I want to see people in good churches…..with “pastors” that teach sound Christian doctrine……..ordained or otherwise………and I use the word “ordained” out of respect for the laws in Greece……here you have to be approved by the GOC in order to have a home church or whatever……..

Actually I don’t “lump” you in with that girl dude………do you really believe everything is about you Robert? That young lady needs some guidance where you need lots more my friend………and you have lied about me repeatedly on your family bible study from July 5th Robert………and I’ll be playing that for the people believe me…….

The church that Ken Silva was assigned to was a church plant of a 100……..it dwindled down to 13 when Ken came and now it’s at between 6-8 people……he claimed God was weeding out the tares while he “preached”……..and I was complimenting Ken on getting ordained by the SBC………tough requirements……something you couldn’t pass at gunpoint……..why are you bringing Silva up when Dorothy’s questions have nothing to do with Ken?

Mr. Begnaud

1) Devouring the Sheep – “they appear to be bigger than they are”

2) Devouring the Sheep – “your main feeding should come from a local church” (not a home church- my words)

3) Todd Bently is back – “how can you go from a congregation of 100 to 5 or 6 in your Bible study.

4) Todd Bently is back – “Ken Silva only teaches a Bible Study”

5) Cleaning up the mess – “the proof that God approves of us is because our contributors”

Phil

1)     NOT referring to you as I didn’t even know you were alive

2)     NEVER said a local church couldn’t be a “home church”

3)     Referring to Ken Silva and I have NEVER put down his bible study

4)     That’s the truth Robert…..

5)     Huh?

Mr. Beganaud All of the above arguments that Phil uses, surrounds the approval of men.  The Bible I read says “Woe unto you when men shall speak highly of you!” I guess I can’t understand it because I don’t know Greek, right Phil?  All of the above referenced audios can be found at Theology Today. Just cannot wait for you to admit that you are wrong Phil and apologize to me for calling me a liar! Why am I hearing crickets right now?

Phil

Crickets eh? That was me snoring dude as I was asleep……..Dorothy asked you the following questions;

1) When has Phil ever criticized a small family Church because they are small?

2) When has Phil criticized a small family in a house?

3) Where has Phil stated that Mr. Begnaud is “not legitimate” because he’s small?

4) Where has Phil stated that Mr. Begnaud is “ridiculous” because he’s small?

Why haven’t you answered them Robert? You confidently proclaim these accusations and more on the audio……the majority of your “evidence” comes from audios that were published PRIOR to my ever knowing who you were…..

You better be careful my friend…….you slandered me to your family which ain’t cool with me……….and now the above is the best you can come up with…….not to cool Robert.

Phil

Below are the emails with dates to compare with the dates on the audios Mr. Begnaud believes I was referring to him…..

Email Exchanges with Robert Begnaud that pertains to this discussion

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10 thoughts on “Nursing a Church Hurt Part 2 My Response to Robert Begnaud

  1. Mr. Begnaud sent me an email message (& perhaps others on your website) complaining about you Phil. I simply asked him if he was a contributor & give a brief explanation of the issue from his side as I had not been following it. His explanation was pretty much the typical “Organized Church bad, Unorganized Church good” screed I’ve heard from men like Frank Viola.

    Phil there is a connection with ALL heresies — they ALWAYS must disconnect the believer from the continuity & unity of the community of saints. We see this in the Mormons, in the JWs, in the hyperpreterists & lone-ranger self-proclaimed prophets/”teachers”. They all rail against the historic Church as merely “traditions of men”.

    Well, I for one DO follow the “traditions” of some very specific men — men whom Jesus hand-picked for that very purpose:

    Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. (2 Thes 2:15)

    Men like Mr. Begnaud want people to believe God/Jesus/the apostles/Holy Spirit were either unable or unwilling to maintain truth among the community of saints until lo & behold; they come along to correct everything. I’m sorry that is just flat out cultish.

    I have nothing against home churches when they are plugged into the community of saints as a whole, but when they become little islands thinking they & they alone are the “true church” then they are prime to be little cults.

    I didn’t know anything about Mr. Begnaud until he emailed me & then I went to his website to read more about him. Certain quotes by Mr. Begnaud confirmed my inkling that he was one of these loner, “I am the true teacher” types.

    “I am not just another person building a kingdom for himself or trying to get noticed with just another opinion, I have been taught by the Lord Jesus what I know. This is different than what you have heard, I am almost sure of it! ” (ref)

    Mr. Begnaud’s statement implies that he has some personal teaching over others — as if Jesus Himself came to teach Mr. Begnaud. This sounds as cultic as the claim by Joseph Smith Jr., founder of Mormonism who also claimed that he had personal instruction from God.

    Mr. Begnaud then encourages people to examine him & what he is saying:

    Do you believe that I am wrong? Please be humble enough to give me your strong reasons why! (ref)

    So, what is the problem? Phil is doing exactly what Mr. Begnaud asked him to do. Phil (& I & I suspect just about any other person who is a part of the historic Christian faith) finds Mr. Begnaud’s teachings about himself & about the Church to be WRONG & we are merely being humble enough to give him our STRONG reasons why.

    From his About page (ref), Mr. Begnaud depicts a person (himself) as someone who has been a victim of life-long bad doctrine. He tells us he was raised in an “Assembly of God” congregation, then “became a Jesus only Pentecostal as a teen” then moved to a local Baptist congregation by then “became unsatisfied by the dryness and went a little back towards [his] Pentecostal roots”. He tells us later that he, “became involved in a Four Square Church where I became the worship leader”. So, as the reader can see, Mr. Begnaud has been floating from bad theology to bad theology most of his life. Thus, I not angry with Mr. Begnaud, I’m sad for him.

    Eventually we get to where Mr. Begnaud is today. He says, “This is the time that the Lord opened my eyes to the mystery Babylon, what I would refer to as modern day Christendom.” (ref). This explains everything. Mr. Begnaud as I pointed out in the beginning of this response sees historic Christianity as equal to the mystery Babylon”. This would make him & perhaps a select few others, the keeper of “true Christianity” — again much like the hyperpreterists I’m fighting against.

    Mr. Begnaud confirms, just as the hyperpreterists that he is relating some “hidden” or forgotten knowledge.

    “What I am trying to do is approach the subject of living Truth, not as a theologian out of seminary, but as a little child who receives the precious hidden manna from the Father.” (ref)

    Hidden from whom? The REST of the community of saints?

    Look, I’m sure Mr. Begnaud loves his family but he is doing a disservice to them to say the least by keeping them away from the community of saints. He is right to keep them away from the experiences he had with the WoF movement — but Mr. Begnaud, I implore you to reconnect your family with the community of saints. It is time.

  2. Hi,

    Thanks for the comment Rod…….

    I tried to be a pastor to this guy Rod……I guess the old adage “no good deed ever goes unpunished” is oh so true………

    So, Mr. Begnaud was talking behind my back was he? He claims that’s a SIN……..care to share Robert why its ok for you to do this and its not alright for me?

    I’m smelling a hypocrite here…….

    I’m smelling Pharisee here…….

    I’m smelling a wannabe cult leader here………

    Phil

  3. Respectfully Robert, hasn’t this gone far enough ? All of this because you chose to go to Phil’s site and write an article stating that John MacArthur was wrong in how he used the word stature. Maybe you should have spent a little more time on Theology today to understand that Phil was going to defend what he believed to be correct. Robert you have besmirched Phil’s character by calling him a liar and hypocrite and attributing to him thoughts, intents and actions that are false. Your accusation that Phil called Ingrid Schlueter an egotistical jackass is not true. That remark was made on the podcast Todd Bentley is Back and he was not speaking of Ingrid but of ODMS. ” These guys” comes before that statement. He talks about Ingrid and her blog later. Why are you bringing up Ken Silva ? The problem Phil has with Ken has nothing to do with the fact that Ken has 6 to whatever number of people in his home church…..You’re not even close. There is a history with Ken you know nothing about, and it has NOTHING to do with the fact that Ken is small. Frankly, I’m tired of it looking like Phil is the neighborhood bully when it comes to Ken. In my opinion Phil has shown great restraint where it concerns him as has others. I hope you will back away and let this just go Robert. I believe you have completely misunderstood Phil and nothing good can come from more fighting. P.S. I am a nobody and Phil has shown me great respect.

    • Hi,

      You remember that conversation on the ning site? That was interesting wasn’t it? That is what all of this is really about and when he realized how silly he was he removed it and immediately started attacking me…….

      What Robert conveniently left out from that podcast was the FACT that I asked my listeners and readers of Theology Today to PRAY for Ingrid’s health because she was in a very difficult pregnancy and THANK YOU JESUS that mother and daughter are both doing well…….or so I’ve been told………

      One good thing came of the Dave Norris fiasco and that was meeting you Deborah……not because you defended me here but because you are one rational and logical lady that has been a blessing to me…..and I hope and pray you stick around here!!!

      Phil

  4. Deborah,
    You apparently cannot judge rightly, the very thing you accuse me of Phil has done. Again you people always side with mobs who think they are right, because of their numbers. Phil has besmirched my character exactly the way you claim above. All you have is OPINIONS, like Mr. High brow Roderick above, “being a lone wolf makes me a cult leader?” you care to defend that statement with the Bible, you will lose – sure feel sorry for John the Baptist! and by the way Roderick, I attended a Reformed Church for six months, played the piano for their services, attended a Calvinist home fellowship another six months, even dealt with some Hyper-Calvinst; never met more wicked, sadistic, unloving people ever! If you haven’t, you ought to read my post, answering this post at my website. If Phil thought I was such a clown, when I came to his site with my “hit list” Phil could have simply given his take on the word “stature”, told me he disagreed with me, and reminded me that no one was going to heaven or hell on their misuse of this word, and I would have agreed and perhaps we would have gotten over to a subject worth fighting over! You see, I am much smarter than you give me credit for, Mr Theologian Phil would put me in hell and call me a false teacher over the use of one word “Stature” in defense of one of his buddies! When I saw this theological arrogance, I decided that it would be a waste of time to debate him on the matters, that really matter. I wanted to see how Phil would respond to my accusation of JMA over one word. Phil didn’t let me down, he showed me exactly what I needed to know! I have intelligently, honestly answered all of your accusations, false discernment, reading my mind, twisting my words, and if you were unbiased honest independent thinkers, you would agree with me. Thank you for putting up those personal emails Phil, I guess you have selective ethics, you can’t reveal the contents of your emails with Lumbley, but you can with me, I stand behind everything I have said, not ONE bit ashamed of it! Now let me ask you geniuses a question, Jesus said “the scribes and Pharisees sit in the seat of Moses, so do what they say, but do not do as they do” Please tell me, I am dying to hear your answer, who’s seat do you sit in? Your leaders, your ordained elders, pastors, teachers, who’s seat do they sit in? Why should I do as you say?
    Robert

  5. Hello Robert,

    I have yet to see your proof of your claims regarding your allegations made from your audio from July 5, 2009 yet I’ve clearly demonstrated the claims I’ve made against you, not with opinions but with PROOF…..

    John the Baptist was a “lone wolf”? Ever read John 3:22-36 Robert? Looks like John had some disciples as well……guess he wasn’t such a “lone wolf” after all huh?

    Your attacks against Deborah and Roderick are noted…..its funny how you talk behind my back with Roderick and when he doesn’t agree with you he’s now “Mr. High Brow”…….

    John MacArthur isn’t one of my “buddies” Robert……in fact I’d never heard a single sermon of his until YOU brought him up in your “stature” conversation…..one you conveniently removed prior to publicly attacking me……..

    Its funny how the “stature” conversation was a test to see if we could debate a subject “worth fighting over” then AFTER the “stature” conversation you challenge John Coleman and I to a two on one debate against you…….which is why I published the emails…….now people can see who’s telling the truth here…….

    Why do you keep bringing up people who’ve had nothing to do with our disagreement and your FALSE accusations against me……and what Steve Lumbley and I talk about is NONE of your business……or anyone elses for that matter…..your emails prove you aren’t being truthful in this matter and publishing them were necessary since you continue to defame, slander and libel me…….

    Has anyone else noticed Robert never answers questions about his hypocrisy and double standards?

    I see your slanderous and libelous audio is still up on your site…I’ll be addressing the audio, or at least the portions that have to do with me, on the next Phil Naessens Show……which as always is published on Monday mornings around 10am my time…..12am PST and 3am EST……..

    Phil

    PS: Now you are referred to as Mr. Begaud…….sorry if I’ve offended you Robert…….

  6. Robert , I contemplated just ignoring your response to me and going on about my life but it seems from your own words about Steve that ignoring you upsets you even more than disagreeing . I wasn’t even going to get involved in this until you accused Phil of attacking Ken Silva because he is small. You were completely wrong about that and I felt the need to say something. There are other thoughts and actions you accuse Phil of that are wrong as well but you have made up your mind that You are right and because you are angry no amount of proof is going to make any difference. I am sorry you think that I can’t judge rightly, am a dishonest “follow the leader” thinker, biased, and that all I want to do is find a mob I can join . Actually there are worse things I could say about myself so your accusations don’t bother me in the least….must be why I needed the Lord Jesus Christ to save me. Robert, I don’t hate you, don’t think you are a nothing because you have a home fellowship and am not questioning your intelligence or your salvation. If you have come to that conclusion by any of my words in my comment above then……..here it comes……..I apologize. And whether you believe it or not I am sincere. My intention was never to hurt you. But you must know that I do not apologize for defending Phil and pointing what I believed to be your error. Robert you have built up in your mind a completely false image of who I am. You don’t know me at all, yet you have no problem calling me names all because I did not agree with you. Here is a little discernment (oops opinion)…..this has now reached the ridiculous .

  7. Deborah,
    Thank you for writing, no I am not angry with you, I can assure you that none of this is as it seems, in person things are much different than on the internet. Maybe I could learn to trust you if you more carefully explained your opinion. I haven’t heard anyone on this forum rebuke Phil over anything. So I guess that everyone agrees that Phil did nothing wrong?; And I am completely in the wrong? How do you think that I am going to arrive at a place of trust with anyone here? That really does make me feel pretty alone out here; yet it is not about my feelings, I am not hurt at you, I simply do not have anyone that I trust to distinguish between the facts and the opinions of this matter. I realize I cannot read minds. However, when people just ignore you, what are you supposed to think? Already I have relieved my self of a burden I was carrying, I had to drag Steve into this fight, and now I know what Steve thinks, now I can go on. Getting Steve to talk is like dragging wild horses, I did the only thing I knew how to do to get it from him. If you speak what is right and you show yourself to be honest looking out for me as well as others, why wouldn’t I learn to trust you? If fact, right now I guarantee that all of this will go away, the audio will disappear from my site and these correspondence, if someone who sincerely cares about me, will call me on the phone and reasonably explain to me where I am wrong. You see I have got my back arched up here because I don’t see it. Only takes a little patience or maybe a lot of patience for some, please explain to me why these guys are not the enemies of my soul. Does Phil have the same rules that I have, or is he in a separate class, higher than me? Does Phil have the same accountability that you want me to have?
    As usual you are very nice to me and I appreciate that and I do hope that I could learn to trust you someday and you trust me. If these guys are going to judge me, I want it to be righteous. That’s all and thanks for writing!
    Robert

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