Flesh and Blood Fighters or Spiritual Warriors?

 

Sometimes “Christians” absolutely disgust me. They really do. The things that some Christians say and do makes me wonder if they are indeed re-generated Christians at all….and what they were like before the alleged re-generation. Yesterday I was forwarded an email portraying a female apologist as “the whore of Babylon”. This email has been passed around amongst some within the Full Preterism crowd and it’s absolutely disgusting not to mention sinful.

 

Michael Bennett, do you remember reading the 10 Commandments? In case you missed this important lesson here’s a refresher course on the 8th Commandment;

 

Exodus 20:16 NASB

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Seems fairly straight-forward eh? IOW you shouldn’t be telling lies about other people and depicting the wife of another man as a “whore” unless of course you actually know this person is a “whore” which I don’t think you do.

For a “Christian” to be unable “to resist” and spread this bile about someone he has disagreements with is disgusting and hardly Christian behavior now is it? You owe that lady an apology Michael.

Theological debate is tricky. Sometimes in the heat of the moment we say things we never should have said. It happens and I’m just as guilty of this as anyone. The aforementioned email wasn’t a theological debate but a malicious attempt to destroy someones character. Sadly the intended purpose backfired and revealed Michael Bennett’s character.

Paul, in addressing the Ephesians, had this to say about our conduct;

Ephesians 4: 25-32 NKJV

Therefore, putting away lying, “ Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil. Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

The back biting and the school yard bully tactics need to stop my friends. Both sides are guilty of this and this needs to end. The email I mentioned prior is a by product of this. Its gone on too long and in the case of the previously mentioned email way too far. Again this needs to end and be replaced with Spirit edifying discussions from both sides.

Later in Paul’s epistle he addressed how we are to deal with matters such as this;

Ephesians 6:10-20 NKJV

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

This debate is a spiritual matter that has turned into an ugly flesh and blood brawl that edifies no one except of course the devil. It’s time for each of us to stop attacking flesh and blood and start dealing with the spiritual matters in this debate. That is what the Holy Spirit Inspired Paul commanded the Ephesians to do. I know it isn’t a “time text” but I’m fairly certain we should adhere to this command just the same don’t you think?

It’s time to begin a new chapter in this ongoing debate. It’s time to forgive those who’ve offended us and move onto the spiritual battle at hand. It’s time to honor our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and demonstrate to the unbelieving world how Christians, even if they disagree, can still honor Christ in word and deed. It’s time for us to stop being flesh and blood fighters but spiritual warriors and this needs to begin today!

 

 

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17 thoughts on “Flesh and Blood Fighters or Spiritual Warriors?

  1. Hello All,

    For more background regarding this post please listen to the following podcast;

    [audio src="http://www.preteristpodcast.com/mp3/pretcast0020.mp3" /]

    Thanks,

    Phil

  2. I do want to say that after seeing Phil call out this sin publicly as the sin was done publicly, I feel convicted to at least apologize for stirring the pot by tweaking the egos of some hyperpreterists, YET never have we spoken of their “persons”, only their character, their mindset, & their actions. I have ridiculed & even parodied what I see as their enormous egos, but never their “persons”. But if I have offended them or non-hyperpreterist observers, I do apologize that they feel offended.

  3. Roderick,

    Thanks for that!

    Sometimes its easy to forget there are real people behind their individual doctrines. Your apology has reminded me of this and I thank you for it.

    Phil

  4. Hi Phil,

    Thanks for this post. I’ve been considering leaving this group for some time now as I no longer share their eschatological views. Maybe I will finally leave after this debacle. I know there are many others within SGP that were saddened your post at SGP was removed. It hit too close to home my friend.

    Michael has a LONG history of this type of abberrant behavior. He’s merely an internet thug posing as a Christian. He targets ANYONE that opposes SGP or FP specifically via emailers. He’s relentless as most bullies are. I’m certain you and your fine ministry will now become Michaels new target as you will now be considered the “enemy”.

    I’ve spoken to many within SGP that appreciate the way in which you’ve handled the various debates here at your site. You are a gracious man and I’m sure that graciousness will go miles in helping others to rid themselves of the cancer known as Preterism. Roderick and Dee Dee are neither gracious or courteous which is why they aren’t respected or listened to.

    God Bless You Phil

  5. Hi Sam,

    Well, I don’t know who the bullies are other then Mike but what do you make of this statement from Ed Hassert?

    I especially love the lies and crap Dorothy who claimed for so long to be our dear friend is slamming us with to keep her friend Roderick happy. What a backstabbing, mean spirited, hateful person she has become! She posts about friend rejecting her when she left preterism but I reached out to her several times only to be shoved away because I would not renounce preterist. The web of lies is amazing. She has said hurtful things about all of us and then claims it was we who shunned her!

    I originally made the same overtures to others who left preterism to keep our friendships alive and received the same rebuke I did from Dorothy, that they could not associate with heretics like me.

    Dorothy is a liar, and a mean spirited, hateful women. Sad when she used to be such a sweat and kind hearted woman. But the poison of Roderick’s hate has infected her as well.

    And Rod acting like he is concerned about anyone but his own ego! He was always one who just liked to hear the sound of his own voice. When he realized he lacked the biblical knowledge and intelligence to be respected in the preterist movement he decided to attack it, hoping at least then someone would see him as being worth listening too. I guess a few women have!

    I can’t believe you would associate with “christians” like Mike and this Ed. I suppose you’ll protect Ed as well since you all are writing a “book” together.

    Of course Ed will need to back up his statements but somehow I don’t think he will. That would require a backbone that I don’t think he has. Only time will tell I guess.

    Phil

  6. Hi SGP member,

    I have heard from some who are afraid to speak up because they know what will happen when they do. They will suffer the same attack I am. This is not their first rodeo. They have seen it before.

    To them and you I say, follow your conscience here. For me I finally had to step back and really consider that my position was wrong and the behavior I was witnessing was the result of the HP position and maybe, just maybe it was a cancer that eats at the soul….

    That’s what this site is all about. Exposing false doctrines…and this site is filled with others who have come out of them. I couldn’t have asked for a better environment to work my way out. I pray others will find their way out also.

    The spirit you recognized in Phil is the spirit that resides here. It’s a love for the Lord, the Church, and other Christians. You witnessed it in Phil. That’s good to hear.

  7. Phil & Everyone,

    IF I wanted to cut off the hyper-preterists, then why do I use a public venue, where they are free to post their rebuttals?

    That just doesn’t compute with Ed’s claims….

    I have considered Ed to be a good friend and we have conversed many times about our personal lives and the issues we face daily. I would truly be heartless if I “cut him off”. Ed has been very sick and I’m very well aware of that. While we may disagree doctrinally today, that’s not a reason to cut off communication. I can say I’ve held Ed up in prayer quite regularly. I know the challenges he faces and in spite of his statements about me, I would still respond if he wrote or called. That’s who I am and who I will always be.

    My goal here is to deliver those caught in the net of HP. That’s a little hard to do if I can’t talk to them or they won’t talk to me.

    What I believe has happened is that Ed was hurt when I left. He and I had been conversing about his health issues prior to my leaving. When I logged of the PretCosmos list, I suspect someone commented that I didn’t want to associate with HP’s anymore. In fact, I logged off because I couldn’t stand the attitude of Mike Sullivan who declared that anything I had to say would be a waste of time listening to.

    If I’m in error here, I will certainly apologize, but my email history does not support it, nor does my memory. As for all the other things he claims – well, he is way off base there. If anyone knows I think for myself, then Ed should. I think he should direct his anger towards the ones fueling these assumptions.

  8. Phil,

    I could post e-mails are articles on the lies that have been spread about me, the attacks, the infiltrations, the letters to wives…..I guess that’s all okay, eh? So long as they are not Preterist attacks. You have an article posted on here by Roderick that is filled with lies about me (like, Virgil is my mentor). But, none of this matters. If exposing character issues amongst denominations, belief systems, Arminianists and Calvinists is the norm, then, dare I say, none of us could stand before God. I just see a double-standard, that’s all. None of it has ANYTHING to do with whether or not Jesus did, in fact, returned in A.D. 70.
    Phil: Personal attacks are NEVER ok. This article was written in the hopes that all this nonsense would stop. It hasn’t has it. I The email in question was public info prior to my ever speaking out against it. For me that was the last straw in what I saw as a battle between flesh and blood. I appreciate you speaking to Mike privately about it but the fact that it was made public where is the public condemnation? Where is the apology from Mike? I don’t see either. How can there ever be reconciliation without at the very least a public apology from Mike?

    I have read were Jews used Luther to argue against Christianity because if what he wrote. I have heard of Calvinist committing adultery. I have seen and known Premillennialists who have done drugs. I have seen a lot in my 30 some years of walking in church doors of various walks…should I say, “Man, that Christianity is a real crock.”? Would that be a good reason? I know Catholics who were raised Calvinists…only to reject it because they met “angry Calvinists.” I mean, I could do this AD HOMINEM thing all day long. I can even, get this, list some folks who becamse hyper preterists because of the actions,they say, of critics! Who is right? None of these things, including the actions of Mike (which was reproved PRIVATELY), “proves” anything concerning our view, and I would like for the discussion to steer back in that direction. That’s what FORGIVENESS is about…to get things back on track. I hope that you and Theology Today readers can do that. If not, then that’s okay, too, since it does not affect my relationship with Christ in the least…nor does it affect my view of His Holy, Spotless Church – without wrinkle, pure, and blameless (regardless of their actions at times – it’s under the blood).

    Samuel M. Frost, M.A.R.
    http://www.thereignofchrist.com

  9. Which Church are you talking about Sam??? The one hyperpreterism claimed was too dumb to get what hyperpreterists claim happened in AD70? The thing hyperpreterists CAN’T get around is that their beliefs are a terminal disconnect from the Bible AND from what it has meant to be Christian for 2000 years. Whatever hyperpreterism is, it is NOT Christian anymore than Mormonism. I’m sorry you feel that is “mean” but it is TRUE.

    “Personal attack” is when someone attacks a person’s PERSON, as Mike has done & many of your fellow hyperpreterists do when they claim we are “insane” & need medical attention. You Sam are the “leader” of a group of disenfranchised, egotistical, individualistic, historic-Christianity haters. It is time for repentance which comes BEFORE forgiveness. But keep in mind, for example, that if a drunk asks forgiveness for some individual violent action & yet remains a violent drunk in character, what has really been accomplished? It is time for repentance which isn’t a mere Clintonian “let’s forget about that & go forward” — but biblical repentance requires a heart-change. Are you ready to make that change Mr. Frost?

  10. Dorothy says, “To them and you I say, follow your conscience here. For me I finally had to step back and really consider that my position was wrong and the behavior I was witnessing was the result of the HP position and maybe, just maybe it was a cancer that eats at the soul….”

    BINGO! And there you go…the behavior of a few is the “RESULT” of their doctrine.

    I have said this OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Dee, Brian, Rod, and now Dorothy are not only anti preterISM but anti preterIST.
    Phil: No, they are anti-stupidity and your boy Mike did a very stupid thing. Even you know that

    This is why Dee will take nothing but an ip address and a mean remark “dee, you are an idiot” and automatically ASSUME, with no warrant whatsoever, that a preterIST did it.

    She has done this time and time again. Why? Because she is anti-preterIST.

    This is why Roderick’s apology is full of crap. He has done nothing but attack “persons” for years now. He did this crap as a preterIST against virgil. It was wrong then, it is wrong now.
    Phil: You don’t attack? You do this crap with Roderick and Dee Dee and Brian Simmons all the time. Your folks give them the ammo Jason but you are to blind to see that. Such a pity

    Phil, you’re obviously playing favs here, and i’m done.

    wallow around with the pigs. i’m tired of it. have a nice eternity.

    Phil: Now we get to the heart of the matter. Hyper-preterists like Jason believe we who don’t fall for the AD70 tap dance are going to hell isn’t that right Jason? Oh wait, your finished right. At least you got one thing right you are finished here. Go wallow with Mike, he’s such a good guy….have a nice eternity.

  11. Sam,

    The problem that is prevelant in hyper-preterism isn’t that there are those with stuggles with alcohol or drugs or adultery, which every Church deals with, but it’s the issue that in hyper-preterism it isn’t dealt with. It is allowed to continue. It is swept under the rug. It is defended when no defense should ever be made for it. IT IS SIN….

    I have fought that for years and will fight it with my dying breath.

    When Ed and I communicated yesterday, I asked for him to add my comment to his apology. I wanted everyone to understand that had I done anything to hurt Ed that I apologized from the bottom of my heart. Ed and I both want to work with a clear conscience. That’s what Christianity is all about….not that we don’t have failures, but what we do when there is failure.

    The rule of law in hyper-preterism, in my experiences over the years, was NOT TO DEAL WITH FAILURES….and many certainly didn’t want to deal with their own personal failures or take accountability for them, nor did most care if they did. This is NOT OK…

  12. Sam Frost on his reclusive hyperpreterist, back-slapping, sin-ignoring playground recently wondered why some of his members are secretly sharing inside information against his little club:

    “if this person is a real SGP member, why is he or she hiding?”

    Well, if people from SGP will do what they have done to people like Dee Dee, Todd, Dorothy, Phil, myself & others — I don’t blame the whistleblowers hiding their identity from the likes of Sam Frost & his club of arrogants.

  13. Phil, this entire exchange was brilliant.

    You handled it with credibility and when pushed, made a crusade out of it.

    Yeah, I enjoyed reading this one.

    Peace,
    HiScrivener

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