Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 10

Dawn sent me a link regarding Todd Bentley attempting to explain away a few misconceptions regarding him personally and the Florida Outpouring in general. Today I would like to look at a couple of statements he has made and offer Mr. Bentley a challenge. Please read his statement at the following link;

http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=1059&pid=993

 

Todd Bentley

Some people have even ventured to say that my visions and visitations are false. That’s like telling someone who’s just told you about a dream they had in their sleep that they didn’t really dream it.
In the case of my encounter with Paul the apostle, just as Paul didn’t know if he was in his body or out of his body when he was taken into the third heaven, I don’t know whether my encounter was in a vision or an actual encounter. I do know that it was not of the adversary. God had reason for this experience and for the revelation that transpired from it. These things I cannot refute.

Phil Naessens

I’m one of those critics Mr. Bentley. If you know that what you saw in regards to Paul was real and not imagined or that this vision wasn’t the “adversary” then why did you completely remove any reference to your interaction with the Apostle Paul from your article?

http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=1059&pid=993

Later on in the column Bentley answers my question….well sort of;

Todd Bentley

From what I’ve been hearing, my heart is saddened because critical people are bringing more attention to the supposed “works of the devil” in my life, and here in Lakeland than to the very real and wondrous works of God. Too much credit is being given to the devil and to man to the detriment of God’s sovereignty and power. Some are even attributing good and wonderful manifestations of God’s loving response to His children, to the devil! But this exalts no one but themselves when they choose to make a ministry out of their judgments and criticisms in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Since when did the devil come to heal the sick, raise the dead, open deaf ears and eyes, lead people to salvation in Jesus, or preach that the Kingdom of God is at hand? Just when did the devil change his plan? Jesus promised life and life more abundantly, and that’s the fruit that we’re seeing in Lakeland.

For this reason, I asked my staff to remove from our website, articles that are causing such strife and division and deterring the Body from the very real and pressing focus of these last days. Jesus wept when people missed the purpose. Every blessing flowed and people received, but they missed the purpose. Don’t miss the purpose!

 

Phil Naessens

Again….why remove your “vision” about interacting with the Apostle Paul and him telling you that Abraham co-wrote the Book of Hebrews if all of this was true? I did notice that Mr. Bentley didn’t remove his “treasury room vision” and how he filled his pockets with gold coins….but I suppose this is more believable then him visiting the Apostle Paul in his log cabin in heaven??? Please see the following article for reference;

https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/05/02/heavens-realities-or-todd-bentleys-delusions/

 

For a very interesting read, please see the following link to a booklet written in defense of the Florida Outpouring by Dr. Gary Greig;

 

 http://www.freshfire.ca/UserFiles/File/drGreg_biblicalperspective2008.pdf

 

Todd Bentley

Before You Pick Apart the Worker…

Please examine the fruit before you pick apart the worker. People are being saved! Certainly this is common ground with every believer – our hearts should always be for the lost. Can we not come together and make this our mission, understanding that our theologies may be different but that we agree on this very important and vital commission. We serve the same God. God is the Father of all of us. We are His children. We are all in the same family. We are all running the same race but at different paces. The Word planted on good soil bears good fruit!

Phil Naessens

I agree that Salvation is the most important thing here but how do you know people are being “saved” Mr. Bentley? I have examined the fruit so to speak and this is what I see;

1). At least two confirmed false resurrections.

2). At least one false prophesy

3). People being kicked in the face, kneed in the mid section and pushed to the ground

4). Questionable statements removed from teaching articles without any mention of said removal

Plenty of bad fruit and more then enough…at least for me…to continue to warn others there is a wolf in our midst.

 

Last week Wendy Alec “prophesied” that Jesus would be making an appearance in Lakeland on Sunday night June 8th 2008. Of course this didn’t happen which makes her a false prophet….but I haven’t seen anyone denouncing this failed prophecy…at least not from the Bentley camp. Bentley has been nattering on and on about integrity during his meetings so here’s a good opportunity for him to demonstrate the integrity of his ministry and this “revival”….

Are you ready for my challenge Mr. Bentley?

 

My challenge to Todd Bentley

Wendy Alec of GOD TV has made a false prophecy concerning Jesus making an appearance at the Florida Outpouring…that obviously didn’t occur. Under Levitical Law this woman should be put to death….but I’m not asking you to do this….but if you really are interested in integrity then do the following;

1). Publicly state that Wendy Alec is a false prophet by refuting this prophesy live on GOD TV.

That’s it. Go on TV and tell the world that Wendy Alec is a false prophet. If you are really interested in integrity then this should be easy for you to do…shouldn’t it?

 

There is plenty more to Bentley’s article we can address….and I look forward to your views!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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37 thoughts on “Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 10

  1. I like what Charles Stanley said ages ago… something to the effect of “Jesus didn’t knock people down, He lifted them up.”

    Phil: Exactly!

  2. Hi Phil,

    I would say if Bentley has to stop and explain himself, then sites like yours and others are causing him problems. Of course, he would never consider that maybe, just maybe, he IS the problem.

    But in Bentley’s mind, we can’t be right, because HE IS.

    Phil: His arrogance is something else eh Dorothy? Did you get a chance to read the teaching from Dr. Greig yet?

  3. Hi Phil,

    Yes, I read some of Greig’s article. I would say they are resorting to MAJOR damage control. Late today I hope to take his article and search all his scriptural citations. I already know what I’m going to find because I’ve already seen some.

    Keep up the good work. Obviously, if they are having to issue statements like Greig’s, based on faulty argument, then they are starting to suffer. If I were a signs and wonders person, I would take this as a good sign. 🙂

    Let’s face it, they have to do something to divert peoples attention away from last weekends false prophecy debacle. They know that people tend to remember the last thing they read and forget what preceeded it. It’s an old trick but still effective when doing damage control. Of course, I’m republican, so like the elephant, I don’t forget, and I’m not about to let others either. 🙂

    Phil: Haha! Wait to you get to the ending where they claim we are not to judge a prophet by their prophecies but by their fruit….apparently character and conduct play a bigger role then what the prophet actually prophecies…at least that’s my interpretation of what Dr, Greig says…..looking forward to hearing what you have to say Dorothy:)

  4. Phil:

    Excellent points. I tried to contact Wendy Alec at “God TV” for a conversation and statement. Her staff said she doesn’t reply to e-mails and phone calls–due to the volume of the same they receive.

    Wendy Alec’s false prophecy and Todd Bentley’s reading of it will be the subject of an upcoming article…

    God bless, and continue to keep us updated.
    Bud

  5. Duck and cover! I sense a good ol’ fashioned Pentecostal/Charismatic duck and cover! You might have ascertained how it works, but for the education of those you know who are into this, here is how you cover up:

    1. Deal with the motive
    2. Deal with your message
    3. Paint your detractors in a bad light
    4. Get a well known dude to cover up for you

    Man, this is nothing remotely new, yet it works every time like the Fosbury flop technique for the high jump.

  6. Hi Phil,

    This is my critique of Greig’s work “Biblical Reasons to Receive God’s Glory and Give it away in Power Evangelism”. For the sake of time, I think I’ll just let Greig’s position show us whether he is a faithful witness or not. I’ve decided to work with Grieg’s premise and follow it through to a conclusion.

    On page 55 of Greig makes the following statement and I quote “The end of the matter: Receive all God wants to give you, and give it away.

    Does Greig do this? Greig has Vanguard Ministries where he offers FOR SALE memberships, coaching programs, consulting services, seminars, etc. He has a structure much like Bentleys of membership levels. So by Greig’s own plumbline, he does not “give it away”. It does have a price tag and of course, it’s all about reinventing yourself. While that appears to be a subtle shift in focus, it is very major imho.

    http://www.vanguardministries.org/default2.asp

    This is what Greig had to say about Bentley on page 2 “I have never found a biblically and theologically untrained evangelist or ministry leader over the past twenty years who accurately interprets and rightly handles the Scripture as well as Todd Bentley has done”

    What scripture does Todd quote in immediate response to Greig’s “book” in his very first paragraph:

    “I am the LORD, I change not” (Malachi 3:6).

    http://www.freshfire.ca/?Id=1059&pid=993

    What Todd is claiming is that the signs and wonders of the Bible are still in effect today because “I am the LORD, I change not”. Well, if this is what Greig considers to be sound exegesis, he has a major problem. If we use Todd’s plumbline that God changes not, then tatoes and piercings are still condemned AND Todd should not eat pork. This verse is not about God’s methods of operation but about His character and attributes. God will not act outside of His defined attributes & characteristics.

    So much for Greig’s discernment of Todd’s ability to exegete scripture. Todd blew it – big time.

    Greig establishes his plumblines for gauging a ministry. Here they are:

    1) Two-fold ministry (page 5-6) – proclamation of word & deed (Rom 15:18-19)
    “Proclamation of the Gospel is accompanied by healing signs and wonders”. Then “proclamation consists both of preaching or teaching the word”

    2) False Prophets (pages 47-49

    a. Become less accurate when experiencing lifestyle issues – often idolic in nature – focused on money
    b. Turn people away from God
    c. Refuse to be held accountable
    d. Unwilling to repent
    e. Need to be lovingly confronted
    f. Accessories to their false prophecy – look the other way instead of correcting – thus making them false also.

    Item 1: I have yet to hear Todd Bentley proclaim the Gospel. So at this point his ministry is only one-fold and fails Greig’s definition of ministry.

    Item 2: Wendy Alec and Todd have made appeals for God TV in the amount of 6 million dollars. I don’t know about you, but 6 million is a lot of financial need and if I needed 6 million I would be stressing a little. http://www.god.tv/revival

    Wendy issues a false prophecy of Jesus making an appearing at Todd’s revival last Sunday (a). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Wc18CDsRA)

    Todd Bentley declares it publicly (f). Wendy’s failed prophecy, while being about Jesus will most certainly makes a mockery of the proceedings and does turn people away to other “gods”. (b) As far as I know, no one has taken accountability (c), repented of their actions (d), or been confronted publicly (e).

    While I’m here, I’ll make a call for repentance from both of them.

    So with that said – I do believe at this time Todd fails to meet Greig’s established plumblines here also. Therefore, I consider Greig to be giving false testimony based on his own presentation and imho that makes his testimony null and void.

    That’s my take on it. I would be interested in seeing what others have to contribute.

  7. Hi,

    Nice critique…..

    This is from the Bentley “explanation”

    “This paper is written at a high level of scholarship for pastors, church leaders, and theologians yet is understandable to the layperson. The Lord told Dr. Greig to “sow into the revival,” not by publishing this 55 page booklet in a conventional way, but by donating it to Fresh Fire Ministries to use as we will, even if it’s just as an encouragement to the ministry. He has granted us permission to post or distribute this paper free of charge and advised that the Lord told him to suggest a donation of $3-$5 to go to Fresh Fire Ministries to help cover the costs for ushering in the outpouring in Lakeland, though to remain free for those who cannot afford the cost of the booklet. [Click here to donate] If you are unable to donate at this time, we invite you to download the paper anyway. [Click here to download the booklet]

    The Lord told Greig to suggest a donation of 3-5 bucks for this booklet? So they are now being disobedient for giving this booklet away for free?

    It’s all about money with these people isn’t it?

  8. Hi Phil,

    Yes, imho it’s all about the money. My advice – “Just say NO” and in this case you don’t even have to say “No thank you”.

    Of course, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that this will increase the call volume at Greig’s ministry. Isn’t that what “sowing a seed” is all about, bringing in money to “your” house?

    Why does this remind me of a pyramid scheme?

    Phil: There are numerous “ministries” and people that will make major bucks off this “revival”…..Bentley will be writing books and speaking wherever he wants and charging whatever he wants….the worship leader Roy Fields is another one that will definately benefit from this “revival”….

    The only ones who won’t benefit will be the very people Bentley and Co claim to be helping….they will keep right on “seeking” but never truly find what they are looking for….unless its a sign or wonder and those seem to be at the ready…..sigh….

  9. Hey Phil,

    I didn’t mention that Greig is also the Senior Editor of Theology & Aquisitions at Regal Publishing Group. The path that leads to all sorts of rabbit trails is being put in place.

    What I have noticed is that I have never run across one of them that advocates Bible study – unless it’s in a mentored environment and then it isn’t all about scripture but some new fangled program they have to “reimage” you. Scriptural integrity is out the window because of their additional “divine” revelations. I guess they aren’t very happy with the foundation layed by the apostles & prophets, so they need some of their own apostles & prophets to lay one to their own liking. No wonder their message brings Babel to mind.

  10. Hi Yomi,

    Excellant article. Pyramids = Egypt….I believe we are called “out” of Egypt, not into it. Right? 🙂

  11. Bro. Yomi,

    Wonderful article! I’m from Ghana, and all the big churches teach this Gospel of the Now, as I call it! “Send NOW prosperity!”, “Favour me NOW!”, “Bless me NOW!”. This weekend I had the privilege to listen to Dr. John MacArthur’s message, “Your Best Life: Now or Later?”. People like the false teacher from your article would deem a message like that to be heresy…

  12. Indeed, Dorothy, we are called OUT. Douglas, nice to make your acquaintance. If you think the situation in Ghana is bad, please schedule a trip to Nigeria soon. The big churches, the small churches, baptist churches, anglican congregations, presbyterians – almost all of the country have bought into this crafty lie.

    You’ll be hard put to find one church in 100 that’s not in on it one way or the other.

    But our Lord is on the throne. He is building His Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Phil: But there is at least ONE church in Nigeria that is sound….I think it rhymes with brown eh Yomi?

  13. Great analysis Dorothy and wonder spot Yomi.

    I guess Benthly forgot Matt 24: 24 when he siad;

    Since when did the devil come to heal the sick, raise the dead, open deaf ears and eyes, lead people to salvation in Jesus, or preach that the Kingdom of God is at hand? Just when did the devil change his plan?

    Mat 24:24 says

    “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    enthly doesn’t have”

  14. Sounds like a carbon copy of Ghana LOL. Winners Chapel I cannot stand – Oyedepo is so proud and arrogant, but my Dad loves him – why I cannot tell…

  15. Hi Naomi,

    I do plan to tackle Greig’s idea of prophets & character. I don’t think he realizes that when the prophets, like Jonah, gave prophecy, it was how the people reacted that determined God’s course. When Nineveh believed God, thus believing Jonah, they repented. Mercy is one of God’s attributes. Of course, Nineveh did persevere and they were eventually destroyed.

    When Wendy Alec prophecies that Jesus is showing up and he doesn’t – it makes Jesus out to be a liar. False prophets will always defame & deface His Holy Name.

    It has nothing to do with the prophets character, it has everything to do with God’s character and attributes.

    You are certainly right – Satan can mask himself and people continue to fall for it. We can only pray for them.

    I can report that I live 1 hour away from Lakeland and I mention the Lakeland outpouring/Todd Bentley when I’m out and people don’t have a clue about what I’m talking about. I do know of one family here attending, but their church is already teaching this stuff. So at this point, the news isn’t spreading here.

    I am considering making a visit to Lakeland to do a survey. Those running it will know it’s me because I’ll be wearing a suit. While others wouldn’t dare take that approach, I am one of the very few who can do this and be VERY effective.

  16. Hello, Dorothy:

    I have been reading your posts over a period of months with interest and along with, naomijt, encourage you as well to “please take a trip to that ‘revival’ (cough).”

    You should not miss this opportunity, Dorothy, and since you admitted to living “1 hour away,” we commentators naturally look forward to reading an eyewitness report of the devilry breaking out in your backyard.

    Plainly, I am praying that Bentley come to Colorado Springs – don’t think Ted Haggard; think “America the Beautiful,” inspired by Pikes Peak – as I have some choice words for him. Of course, those words will be spoken in love, although, through the wicked filter of his mind, what he hears may not “sound” like love.

    In this regard, I have a couple of thoughts, since I am presently engaged in a cursory reading through Revelation. (Okay, it is impossible to do a cursory “read” in this book; but I tried! Was it the Spirit, who gently nudged, “Peter, look at this?”)
    19:10 (NAS95S) – Then I fell at his feet to worship him (the angel – my inclusion). But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

    So, we know angel worship is forbidden, and that knowledge is surely common to those of us who have left a few dactylograms on the pages of Scripture.

    But rather, when I glommed onto [f]or the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, this news-flash from the Spirit hit me: the testimony you and I hold, Dorothy, is the gospel of our Lord Jesus. From where does this testimony come? IMHO, from OT prophecy of the Jesus to come, and NT preaching of the Jesus, listen to Me (Him) now.

    Perhaps, the drama of the angel refusing worship from the “one whom Jesus loved” dwarfed that last simple sentence in the verse?

    As we (you, Dorothy? I?) exhort Bentley to, read Colossians 2:18, and grasp that Paul is talking about him – I can hear Nathan proclaim, “You are the man!”(2 Samuel 12:7) – we should implore the Lord that Todd would answer us as David answered Nathan: “I have sinned against the Lord.” (v. 13)

    Oh, that Bentley would repent!
    *************************

    PS: That remark about “wearing a suit” throws me a tad:)

  17. Hi Naomi,

    I have a vacation coming up here shortly and I think I just might make a “missions trip”. I may even host a tour.

    One thing I do know – is you fight fire with fire. 🙂

  18. Phil,

    I hope you read this. Todd Bentley told the reporter for the Charlotte Observer on June 18th that MOST of his tattoos came BEFORE salvation!
    http://www.charlotte.com/345/story/676593.html
    Also, http://www.charlotte.com/local/story/676527.html

    This seems to contradict other statements and video evidence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zMRChoojZo
    What’s going on here?

    Phil: Well….Bentley is a character…..and a fraud IMO…..when he got caught lying about his visiting the Apostle Paul in heaven he removed it from a teaching article he did….when people questioned his “Emma” angel he removed that as well. Now he’s being critisized for the tatoos and while he can’t easily remove them he lies about it and the people that follow him are so brainwashed they will believe anything…..

  19. Hi Dick,

    A cursory read through Revelation – is there such a thing? lol I’ve logged about 6000 hours there and I’m back at it again. I’ve got Hoeksema, Durham & Beale on my desk now along with parts of three unpublished books I’m reviewing. I agree whole heartedly – the answers are in the OT. Revelation is imho written in a very intimate language that requires a knowledge of Biblical history. It’s like that private communication I have with my husband. I know of one location I can mention when he asks me if I’m having a good time before others and the first thing that comes to his mind is massive rain, a flooded tent, crying kids and and outbreak of measles, so he gets the message. No one else is the wiser. lol

    On Lakeland, I have really struggled over whether to visit or not, but I’ve finally relented. I can’t watch an entire episode on the webcast, so I was quite uncertain about how I’d handle the entire show. I can’t say I’m looking forward to it. I haven’t picked a date yet, but probably within the next few weeks.

    Should I get the opportunity, I’ll be sure and give Bentley greetings in Colorado Springs style. 🙂

    The suit??? hmmmm That’s my trade secret. lol Maybe I’ll share it AFTER I’ve been there.

  20. Hey Dick,

    I certainly hope I haven’t discouraged you or anyone else from spending time in Revelation. I just have to say that everytime I work in that book, it’s a blessing. That’s why I spend so much time there.

    Beale said in his introduction that no one realizes how difficult a task it is to reconcile that book until you sit down to do it. He took 7 years writing it and and another year editing it but that should not discourage any of us. Shoot, I’m a youngster compared to the time Beale & others have spent in their work.

    From my first excursions into it and til today, it always increases my understanding and that’s a real blessing. It does provide what it promises.

  21. Hello, Dorothy:

    Discouraged? Not at all.

    Quite the contrary, I am honored that you replied to my note (twice!), and encouraged with your attempt to plumb the depths of Scripture.

    For thus says the high and exalted One
    Who lives forever, whose name is Holy,
    “I dwell on a high and holy place,
    And also with the contrite and lowly of spirit
    In order to revive the spirit of the lowly
    And to revive the heart of the contrite.

    “For I will not contend forever,
    Nor will I always be angry;
    For the spirit would grow faint before Me,
    And the breath of those whom I have made.

    Isaiah 57:15-16

    May we all remain “contrite and lowly of spirit,” Dorothy!

    Peter.

  22. Benthly needs to check out this scripture out:

    2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

  23. Hi Peter,

    Pro 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

    If there is ever a day where I claim to know it all, would be you kind enough to beat me over the head with a 2 x 4 and knock some sense into me. 🙂

    Unlike Bentley, I do recognize Biblical love in action. I can remember being chewed up over my position on women in the Church and it was years ago. It drove me to study to prove the man wrong. Turns out he was right and I so wanted to prove him wrong. lol Now we are good friends and I know I can trust him to give me good counsel. Amazing how that works, isn’t it?

  24. Good day. I have watched some of the stuff that has been going on this website. Though I don’t agree with most of what is said here, I am coming to apologize to you, for no other reason than this: That I have criticized you and held an unchristian attitude towards you in my heart. I ask your forgiveness.

    You are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I may not agree with you, but as Papa has commanded I love you in Christ, but please understand that this is not an endorsement of anything either way, it is simply me being obedient to Jesus.

    I represent no one but myself.

  25. I read a post that reported Bentley had installed ATM machines at Lakeland. This great move of god is from your bank account to to Bentley’s.

  26. Benthly is really a smart guy. Now, no one will have an excuse for not giving.
    … and someone says this is’nt all about money.

  27. Hesed,

    Awesome article by James Prasch. Some people look at papers like Griegs and are intimidated by what appears to be a scholarly paper. Most people will look at it with all its fancy footnotes and think the guy knows what he’s talking about.

    I had a boss who said “if in doubt – scribble”. That’s exactly what Greig has done with his paper. He has scribbled out a bunch of gobbly gook. It’s a worthless piece and void of scholarly content.
    I agree totally….

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