Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 6

Yesterday I received a comment from Dawn that was so good that I thought it deserved a post of its own. The following is her testimony in regards to the Florida Outpouring…..

 

 

 

 

I have attended this revival for many weeks. In fact, I have been there since the second night of Todd’s meetings (4/2/08), long before this became “revival”. Initially, I was so excited to see God move in such a mighty way. I was encouraging my pastor, several other pastors that I know, many friends and family members to “come and see what God is doing.” There were few times when I was uncomfortable with what was happening in the meetings, but I figured that I was just being critical and reminded myself that God’s ways are not my ways. I continued to support this revival, even after I heard my own pastor voice his concerns. I was quite vocal about these misgivings others had. I continued to defend Todd, God, etc., etc.

 

However, as time as passed, I have become increasing concerned about several things. First of all, I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years (in radiology). I have noticed that there have only been a very few “documented” miracles in comparison to the numbers that have claimed miracles. I am aware of at least two claims of healing that I believe to have possibly been real. There was the child with the elbow fracture and her x-rays. However, I would like to know the dates between the first set of x-rays and the 2nd, as healing, especially with very young children can be quite quick…especially if it was very mild fracture. Also, I would love to see the type of fracture, position, and the view (AP, lateral, etc.) of the second set of films. (Sometimes a particular view will not show the fracture that is actually there.) There was also a young man who testified one night (before TV/internet) about being healed from Hepatitis C, with the lab work to confirm. Again, with false positive/negatives that can happen with labs. I’d love to see what his actual lab values were and see a retesting to confirm. Although I do believe that this individual could very well have been healed, but because of how I’ve seen other things handled in this revival, I would just like to see more documentation.

 

Much of the “miracles” that I have seen over the weeks have been based more on what people believe that have happened, more than medically documented miracles. Many times over I have seen people with metal rods in their spine be “healed”. Todd will ask, what couldn’t you do, and usually has them bend over. This act of bending over is declared as a miracle. It is not. Most folks with metal rods in their back or neck CAN bend over, as these rods (Harrington rods) very seldom go the entire length of the spine. In fact, I have metal plates/screws in my neck and can bend my head from side to side and front to back. I remember one night when a woman with bulging discs in her neck came up to declare her healing. Todd felt along her spine and said “I don’t feel any bulging discs in your neck”, and then announced she had been healed. A disc bulge is something that you will NOT detected by running your hand up and down the spine. It is not something that can be physically palpated. Only imaging with MRI or CT would show the presence of disc bulges and if they were compressing nerve roots or affecting the spinal cord/spinal canal. I saw where this declaration of healing caused the room the go wild. My feeling is that if this is truly a bonafied healing…PRAISE GOD! But let’s confirm these miracles. That is what the world really needs to see! But alas, very few healings are actually being confirmed.

 

Secondly, my concern is the focus that has been placed on Angels, visitations, manifestations, etc. Although Jesus is mentioned throughout the night, though an altar call is given… far more emphasis is being placed on these other things than is acutally being given to the Jesus and him crucified (as Paul would say). The cross, the resurrection, holiness, repentance, dying to the flesh, etc., are merely glossed over and not really preached. What is being given more time, more emphasis are these other “experiences”.

 

The atmosphere here has changed from the very first meetings…at least it seems to me. And as I said earlier, I have been at revival since April 3rd…the 2nd night Todd was here in Lakeland. Something is wrong and I am concerned. Somehow the gospel that saves and keeps is not being preached as it should. Jesus…not even the Holy Spirit… is to be focus. In the Gospel of John, it says the when the comforter (Holy Spirit) would come, it would not speak of himself, but of Jesus. My concern is growing. I think we need to really pray and ask for discernment. I’m all for revival. I am all for miracles. But is there another Jesus, another gospel that is being preached here?

 

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24 thoughts on “Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 6

  1. There are many things about Todd Bentley’s style that I do not like. I could even say they offend me. And the lack of documentation for healings is a concern I share.
    However, I have difficulty in dismissing the periodic altar calls and the great hunger for God that is being displayed there. If people are coming to know and love God through through the Name of Jesus in this experience, I am hard pressed to curse it.
    But also, I need rather to question my own motivations and attitudes first, before I criticize Todd Bentley, since I do not have the same fruit in my life that he apparently has. Here is an important question for me: “Will God, (or can God) use someone who is not doctrinally pure or who has weird methodologies to do His miraculous works?” In other words, what makes us think God would never use anyone but “the perfect” as vehicles for His power? If I understand the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:25-29), God delights in using flawed and faulty people to display His wisdom and power. And God usually uses the “unusual.”
    I may not agree with everything I see Todd Bentley doing, but God did not consult me in how He would do His next outpouring. And as is so often the case, we take away an opinion based on the pre-disposition we started with. This has been proven out over and over in so many scenarios. This outpouring is no different.

  2. You are right Phil, this testimony deserves to be a post of its own. It’s amazing how much of a novice we are in the medical field. A lot of folks have been here defending Todd Bently, claiming to have seen many healed and demons casted out.

    I have read a lot of stories about poeple dying after being proclaimed healed by false prophets, especially those from Kathryn Kulman’s meetings.

    Still, it’s scripturally clear that God is not part of that Florida revival.

  3. Staying Within the Confines of the Word of God

    God has left us His Word and His Spirit to give us direction for our lives. Our lives are to be governed by the Word of God with the help of the Holy Spirit. (Psalm 119:105, John 16:13, Romans 8:14) When we go outside of the parameters of the Word of God we open the door to demonic deception. (Ephesians 4:27)

    There are 3 doctrines being taught in the church today that in my opinion are very harmful because they open the door to demonic power to manifest in the church. The first one is that if you are a prophet you can prophesy to anyone you want at will because you are a prophet. This doctrine violates the Word of God. The Word of God says in 1 Corinthians 12:11 the gifts of the Spirit operate as God wills, not as we will. 2 Peter 1:21 says that prophecy never comes by the will of man. Ironically if you get into verse one of chapter two he begins to warn the church about false prophets. When a person operates the gifts of the Spirit by his own will he opens the door to familiar spirits that are demonic to give him information. That person now becomes a Christian medium for demonic power. Even Jesus could not operate the gifts of the Spirit as He willed because He was operating as the son of man on the earth. He had put His mighty power and glory to the side and had to be anointed to function for God. (John 5:19, 20, 30, Philippians 2:7 TLB, Acts 10:38)

    The second doctrine that I also see that is damaging to the church is the doctrine of seeking angelic visitations and asking God to give you visions. No where in scripture do we see this. There is no biblical basis for this. The Bible says we walk by faith and not by site. (2 Corinthians 5:7) Again seeing into the spirit realm is done thru the gift of discerning of spirits which is one of the 9 gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12. Again like prophecy this gift operates as the spirit wills. When you go outside of the Word of God you open yourself up for demonic deception and you will begin to have visions of angels and Jesus but it will be devils that transform themselves as angels of light to deceive people.(2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

    Colossians2:18-19(The Message Translation)Don’t tolerate people who try to run your life, ordering you to bow and scrape, insisting that you join their obsession with angels and that you seek out visions. They’re a lot of hot air, that’s all they are. They’re completely out of touch with the source of life, Christ, who puts us together in one piece, whose very breath and blood flow through us. He is the Head and we are the body. We can grow up healthy in God

    The third doctrine that is damaging to the body of Christ is that you can go to Heaven and visit any time you want to. They use Hebrews 4:16, Ephesians 2:6 these doctrines are doctrines of devils devised in these last days to cause people to fall away. (1Timothy 4:1-2, 2 Timothy 4:1-5) When you start visualizing and doing some of the new age stuff they are teaching about this you will have supernatural experiences but they won’t be from Jehovah God but from the god of this world the devil.

    Hebrews 5:14 tells us that thru the use of the meat of the Word of God we train our senses to discern both good and evil. Let us judge things by the Word of God and the inward witness of the Holy Ghost.(1 Thessalonians 5:20-21, John 16:13, Romans 8:14,16, 1 John 4:1)

  4. Praise God! Finally people are beginning to wise up to the trickster that is Todd Bentley. Rest assured that I will continue to pray for our sister in Christ

  5. Bless you!
    Just to clarify a few things..I don’t think I came off clearly in my post 🙂

    Joy said: “However, I have difficulty in dismissing the periodic altar calls and the great hunger for God that is being displayed there. If people are coming to know and love God through through the Name of Jesus in this experience, I am hard pressed to curse it”

    Dawn says: I am definitely not dismissing periodic altar calls. I’m just saying that there is not a lot of substance to them. The great truth about Jesus, his death upon the cross, his resurrection, the forgivness of sin, is getting second, third, and fourth billing in these meetings. For people to really know the Lord Jesus, you have to preach the Lord Jesus. I have concerns BECAUSE of the masses of people who are showing up with a great hunger for the God. If you got hungry people, you’ve got to make sure you are serving The Bread of Life.

    People are responding to these miracle services, desiring to be set free from disease, drugs, alcohol, etc, just as they did in the day of Jesus. However, not all who were healed accepted Jesus as their Messiah (although I’m sure they really did like Him.) I’m just wanting folks to really know who Jesus is and what it means to make Him LORD and savior. Knowing Jesus as your savior from disease, drugs, alcohol, etc., does not make Him your Lord! It is the job of those who stand in the pulpit for Him to make the LORD Jesus known… not just his works.

    As far as Todd is concerned…never had a problem with his looks, etc. I’ve been through Toronto, Renewal, Pensacola, etc., etc., Been there, done that, not only got the T-shirt, but probably made the T-shirt! 🙂 So, my concerns are not coming from the heart of an “outsider” looking in and being argumentative. (No offense, please to the others on the board….Luv ya!!)
    As a first hand observer, however, the REAL Jesus is getting lost in all this. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is getting lost in all this (and not just here in these meetings…but that is a whole other post.)

    It’s not about flawed or faulty people…it’s about Christ. Jesus did unusal some things…but those unsual things did not become the platform from which he continued to preach, nor the substance of his preaching. He continued to preach repentance from sin and the Kingdom of God throughout His Ministry. He didn’t continuously preach on His personal experiences with the Father in the realms of heaven or on the angels He personally knew. As the Son of God, creator of the heavens and earth, we know He certainly could have. I think that speaks volumes to those of us who have experienced the supernatural!

    God Bless Ya!!!!
    (Hope I didn’t sound rude)

    P.S. Thanks Douglas for the prayer!!! 🙂

  6. There’s a difference between imperfect people with imperfect doctrine (we ALL fit into that category) and false teachers.

    Todd isn’t teaching just inaccurate doctrine, he’s teaching FALSE doctrine. And the Bible is clear to make the distinction that we are to MARK and AVOID those with false doctrine.

    Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    Is it contrary to the doctrine Paul espoused to have female angels guiding you through their appearances??

    Is it contrary to that doctrine to tell folks they have to believe in Todd’s “angel” to be healed??

    Is it contrary to that doctrine to accept undocumented claims of resurrections and the healing of tumors and blindness, gold teeth fillings, diamond dust, and angelic visions as evidence of God’s calling??

    Is it contrary to that doctrine to follow a man who claims that angels give him spiritual gifts??

    Is it contrary to that doctrine to believe a man who claims he went to the 3rd Heaven because he DECIDED he wanted to go?? Is that Biblical??

    Well, I don’t know about you folks, but I cannot substantiate a single one of those doctrines from Scripture. In fact, they are contrary to the doctrine of the Bible.

    RUN, don’t walk, from this wolf.

  7. GaryV

    Excellant points.

    Fair warning – you will now be told we are to “judge not”….in spite of Rom 16:17.

    So I’m adding Gal 1:8 here: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    I would hope that there are some here who will notice “gospel that we have preached unto you”…not a gospel of new divine revelation….

    This message was so important that it was repeated twice. Gal 1:9 also…

  8. There is more to all of this than just false prophets, lying signs and wonders.

    These are the judgments of God upon a people that prefer lies, deceits and deceptions instead of truth, as it is written in 2 Thess. 2:9-12:

    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Hunker down folks, for the storm of Luke 6:47-49 is even now upon us. Those who have built upon the solid foundation that is Christ will stand, but those who have built upon a carnal gospel will come to ruin.

    God will not be mocked, and they have but judged themselves and are even now reaping accordingly.

  9. I am an evangelical Christian. To see what was going on for myself, I watched the Todd Bentley on GodTV the other night. I watched him slap someone on the forehead and declaire, “Fire go through your body in the name of BamBoomBa.” I rewound this bit several times to make sure I transcribed it word-for-word.

    I have a painfully chronic, incurable illness, but under no circumstances would I ever want to be healed in the name of bamboomba, whoever that is. Scary.

    Phil: Hi Anne…welcome to Theology Today…..The other night Bentley kicked a guy and told everyone the Holy Spirit told him to do this….yes scary indeed!

  10. Hi Dawn, just wanted to thank you for coming over to my site and leaving two links of yours that are extremely important for people to read.

    Vee

  11. Hey, really good blogs. I am a pentecostal/evangelical who believes in reformed theology. It is really sad to se the lack of discernment in the body of Christ

  12. Anne: “BamBoomBa”? That sounds like some of the alien/monster/supervillain names Jack Kirby came up with while he was doing Fantastic 4 backup strips for Marvel Comics — like Fin Fang Foom! and Googam, Son of Goom! (I am NOT making these up…)

  13. Hi all,

    I have really appreciated your comments.

    I may have poster this before here – I am not sure…

    Please see “A Call for Discernment” by going to http://www.justinpeters.org. Justin is an evangelist and in addition to expository preaching, also holds seminars on the “Word of Faith” movement. He has cerebral palsy and concurs with the apostle Paul, “My grace is sufficient for thee.”

    To God be the glory!

    Caron

  14. Dawn, What medical evidence did Jesus, His disciples or Paul offer to those persecuting them? They all answered to God not men. How much medical documentation did DR. Luke offer in the books of Luke and Acts? It’s the Greek mindset, predominant in our modern culture, that demands evidence. The Hebrew mindset knows God is good and has our best interest in mind. You might want to read Hebrews 11 and discover what faith is or is not.
    I was healed at Lakeland and and have no documentation, only my testimony. (Rev 12:11) The bible is a book full of testimony, that’s how the Gospel spread – and still does today – through testimony.
    Al- We don’t want to ask for angelic visitations or dreams? Wow! You might want to go back to the gospels and see how many times angels showed up to announce the coming King – Jesus. Maybe read the major and minor prophets as well as the book of revelation to find out about prophecy and dreams. Did the devil show up for John on the island of Patmos?
    If we are filled with God’s Holy Spirit are we unable to discern between an angel from hell or heaven? If we who are God’s children ask Him for bread will He give us a stone or ask for a fish and will He give us a serpent? (Mat 7:11)

  15. PC,

    Next time you want to build a case here, would you mind not ripping scripture out of context…and present it by rightly dividing the Word of Truth….

    Rev 12:11 isn’t about your “healing” testimony. Believe it or not, it’s about people who loved NOT their lives.

    Heb 11 is not about faith “force”. Actually the correct rendering of Heb 11:1 is Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

    But the gospel according to PC is that you need dreams and angelic visitations and additional prophecy….You people are called the “signs & wonders” crowd because you don’t have faith in what you can’t see. In actuality, you require those things to believe….oh ye of little faith.

  16. Hey PC…..Bless you!

    You said: “Dawn, What medical evidence did Jesus, His disciples or Paul offer to those persecuting them?

    There wasn’t any medical evidence needed because the miracles were SO PROFOUND…even the rank unbelievers could NOT deny the significance of these miracles. There was nothing the skeptics could say, which is why the persecution began against Jesus. These were miracles that people didn’t loose four days, 4 weeks or 4 months later, or two years later, because they “didn’t keep holding on to their healing.” I figured if Jesus does the job…Being the Son of God, and all….I didn’t think I’d be needing to come back and finished up or touch up the job he was doing. Do you? Jesus…only healing a portion of the disease.

    Much of what is being claimed as a total healing, is #1, not noticeable to the casual observer. The claim if the condition can can only be accepted by the person testifing. I’ve talked to women in the lady’s room there who had been healed one night, and two nights latter were beating themselves up in the lady’s room because they somehow lost the miracle performed in their body. Maybe I am not thinking clear here, but I don’t ever recall a situation where Jesus performed a miracle on someone and they came back to where he was preaching to say….HEY THERE JESUS….It didn’t work. My leg grew out for an hour, now its back to be 6 inches shorter thant the other. THis ain’t right now Jeus! And Jesus saying….Well, brother simeon, you did’nt have enough faith…..may be next time. But just keep having faith!
    Had there been temporary healings, I’m sure the crowds would have followed Jesus around vocalizing their dismay.

    I have witness several people, my self included, who went up for prayer seemingly “recevied the healing”, felt pain left four a couple of days, and then have the sickness/disease returned with a vengence a few days, or weeks later.

    In fact, after being prayed for fybromyalgia twice by Todd, ….I am now exerpience the worse case or replapse I have ever had in over 10 years. At the time, I went forward for healing with a heart that was pure and just seeking God. Never when to critize anyone, anything. As I got worse (I’ve been unable to get up and around now for almot 4 weeks.) I did a study in a ancient mystical religion called Kundalini—-which much of our moderan “healing” meetings are modeled after….and you will see a uncanny resemblence to eastern mysticism and occlutism. and what is going in many “healing meetings today”. We just through in Jesus. Holy Ghost Fire! More!! The angle of the Lord. JESSSSSSSSUS!!!…..all the while operating a healing power that is not of the Lord. It’s time to discern kids!

  17. this is in response to Dawn and her comment
    “It is the job of those who stand in the pulpit for Him to make the LORD Jesus known… not just his works. ”
    I just wanted to respond to this and just remind all of us who believe in Jesus christ that is it not the job of the people in the pulpit to make Jesus known. It is OUR job as believers. It is our job to show those we come in contact with daily the love of christ and I strongly say SHOW. not tell. Jesus told us to do this. most people who need Jesus don’t even go near a church.
    and let us remember that we all have opionions and one is not better than another. The truth is in the greatest book on earth.

  18. It’s really sad to hear that people who have been given a measure of faith and then losing their blessing simply because they now don’t see it. God’s word remains true inspite of what you see or not see. And you receive your faith by continually hearing His Word. Faith must be undergirded with patience for one to see a lasting fruit.

    Ever noticed that manywho had been miraculously born again get a lot more temptations or difficulties. Same thing with healing miracle you got to fight the good fight of faith. Continue being joyful in the Lord and to be at peace with all men.

    Our enemy is not of flesh and blood. It is not people who do not agree with what you believe the Bible says. And as Christians we should be encouraging one another. Finally, in everything we do we should give our Lord Jesus Christ the glory.

  19. (II Tim. 4: 2, 4)
    “Preach the word; be instant in season, and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; (4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
    I have been watching this Lakeland, Fl so called revival, and see how the antichrist will be able to come in and redirect the carnel church into his own world church. Too many people are following signs and wonders instead of the signs and wonders following those that believe.. WAKE UP CHURCH!!! Jesus is coming back and you can take that to the bank..JEB

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