Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 5

I have been very outspoken regarding the authenticity of this so called “Florida Outpouring”….I didn’t believe it was of God before and what I’ve just witnessed tonight only confirmed my suspicions. I’ve seen a whole lot of God mocking things in my life….but this by far is the most audacious display of mockery I have ever personally witnessed. If you think I was critical or harsh before then you had better not read any further…..

 

Todd Bentley and his cohorts really outdid themselves Saturday night in Lakeland Florida. Bentley promised us there would be a “baptism of fire” and he certainly didn’t disappoint the crowd that came to be “anointed with fire”. Here are some of the highlights…if I can call them this….

 

As always people were coming forward claiming to be healed of things like cancer, diabetes, back aches headaches and such. Glaringly absent….as ALWAYS….were miracles such as completely restored limbs or the dead being raised…which of course they claim happens SOMEWHERE every night….just NEVER on TV….Gee…I wonder why?

 

People were being brought onstage to Bentley….many either laughing uncontrollably or convulsing….Bentley asks them to “step over there”….apparently where the “angel is”….he shouts “bam”…..laughs hysterically….and they hit the floor writhing and laughing hysterically…..I picture Satan laughing hysterically as well.

 

You know who NEVER gets affected by any of this? The folks standing behind these silly sheeple who act as “catchers” when the sheeple are being “anointed with fire” or whatever is happening to them. I think it’s amazing how these catchers seem to be the only ones in COMPLETE CONTROL……well I don’t think it’s that amazing….

 

Pastor Stephen Strader….the clown who brought this whole hoax to Lakeland…..running around like a fool….with his ever present laptop in hand….pretending to be “drunk in the spirit”….falls down…..only he was VERY careful with his PC…..clutching it closely to his chest as he “falls down”…..then calmly gets up and walks over to his chair and sits down…..as if nothing ever happened! Thank you GOD TV for showing this.

 

Bentley and his cohorts catchphrase…“Come get some” is straight out of the WWE….Maybe when GOD TV goes bankrupt from airing this fiasco the WWE can show this like “Smackdown”….nah…we know Smackdown isn’t real….they only pretend it’s real…but at least its entertaining….there is NOTHING entertaining about Bentley’s version of Smackdown….and anyone with even an ounce of discernement can see this “revival” isn’t the real deal either.

 

The silly sheeple looking for a sign deserve to be shorn by Bentley…they’ve been warned that what is happening in Lakeland isn’t of God….and they have ignored the warnings and plunged headfirst…or backwards in many cases…into a Satan induced hoax…and they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

Theology Today will continue to expose this heresy as long as it continues….and I don’t see any end in sight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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96 thoughts on “Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 5

  1. That LAMB devil(Look At Me Brother, I’m spiritual) is a pesky rascal. Like the WWE these knock-down artist decide back stage which anointed person will go down first. I can hear now,

    “Hinn if you come to my meeting your going down”, shouts Bentley.
    “Just step on the stage with me Bentley and we will see who has the power”, replies Hinn.

    Phil: LOL!!!

  2. Well Bentley already has the tatoos, now all he needs is a pair of wrestling tights and a catchy name. Bentley the Bible butcher sounds like a good one.

    The catchers, LOL LOL. It is amazing how an entire crowd of people millions watching on TV can be affected by the “ANNOINTING OF GOD” but the catchers can preform their job as just another day at the office. I say LET THOSE PEOPLE DROP. If God healed them from all these illnesses then I dont think he would allow a little bump on the back of the head to be to much of a problem for him. (God: cancer, back aches, high blood presure sure thing, but a bruise to the back of the head, thats a bit beyond my power. Now bring up the woman with tennis elbow.)

  3. Very few proponents of these things are willing to acknowledge the fact that Jesus said many would come in HIS name and would cast out devils, perform signs and wonders, etc., and yet HE will say, “Depart from me you workers of “lawlessness”, for I never knew you.” How? Why? When? Where?

    I’ve concluded that the insidious and intoxicating allurement of ascribing glory to men, and certain men’s willingness to receive it, has set the stage for a full blown manifestation of the spirit of anti-christ, the son of lawlessness, to enter the church.

    The deception is so strong, that folks who otherwise wouldn’t even fall for the most simple slight of hand card trick in a back alley, will fall for the trap that’s being set.Therefore, I do believe that God has sent the “Outpouring” to Florida. Not as a blessing, but as sign of shame and mockery upon those who despise the truth and have gathered men to themselves that will titillate their itching ears.

    Numbers 11:31-35 “Then a wind from the Lord sprang up, and it brought quail from the sea and let them fall beside the camp, about a day’s journey on this side and a day’s journey on the other side, around the camp, and about two cubits above the ground. 32 And the people rose all that day and all night and all the next day, and gathered the quail. Those who gathered least gathered ten homers. And they spread them out for themselves all around the camp. 33 While the meat was yet between their teeth, before it was consumed, the anger of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord struck down the people with a very great plague. 34 Therefore the name of that place was called Kibroth-hattaavah, because there they buried the people who had the craving. 35 From Kibroth-hattaavah the people journeyed to Hazeroth, and they remained at Hazeroth.”

  4. well, I guess I was wrong about never commenting again- I don’t know who is worse you continuing this tirade- or me coming back.

    the silly sheeple syndrome.
    …..
    “The silly sheeple looking for a sign deserve to be shorn by Bentley”

    A comment like this tells me all I need to know about your criticism. It betrays a bitterness and condescension towards people who are hungry for God. I don’t care how you see Todd Bentley- the people going to those meetings are hungry for God- alot of them are probably silly sheep- Hey I wonder why Jesus calls us Sheep? Could it be that those of us touting ‘discernment’ could be prone to deception too? We see through a glass darkly phil, the focus of your critique has been so mindblowingly narrow that I am sincerely amazed.

    If you think the children of God, misguided or not, DESERVE to be shorn by what YOU PERCIEVE to be EVIL, what does that say my friend?

    God is love.
    LOVE is the force that overcomes deception! LOVE is the power which sets us free from SIN and deception.

    You know- I found another website that reminded me alot of this place-trashing Todd Bentley of course- they went to his myspace page and on it found Mortification- a christian heavy metal band- preaching christ and spreading light in some dark places. Of COURSE because of the style of music this particular “WATCHDOG” of the Internet declared “Just look at this mortification video- it is obviously satanic- before you watch it plead the blood over you and your family”. The video showed the band in the desert- with time lapse cloud shouts and aggressive christian metal. AND WE ALL KNOw- satan is behind loud guitars and drums and ink in the skin. Obviously, people with discernment know this stuff 😉

    you guys should combine efforts on this one. is all.

  5. And by Love- I MEAN ULTIMATe Love as shown by the Cross when Jesus sacrifice bought our salvation!!!
    just before you criticize me of you know, exegesis, or being a silly sheeple, or being a heretic you know, walking down fruit loop trail. But that is not to be mistaken as calling me a fruit loop- TO MAKE that assertion is to commit EXEGESIS which you therefore make a illogical leap to apply to the all the scripture that I quoted- Which I wasn’t “interpretating by the way’ just pointing out. So I responded nicely. you know, didnt get me very far though.

    the Core of your error is the unbiblical definition of discernment. Discernment is from God- you can see this when solomon gets wisdom from God- when PAUl call s it a SPIRITUAL GIFT. DISCERNMENT is not your natural carnal understanding, its not your ability to nitpick- and to be offended by percieved showmanship- Tattoos- this is not discernment, this is worldly wisdom. you know what I mean maN!??
    I know my frustration is coming through…but Do you really think I am being ‘OUT THERE’? for real man…

    I wonder what are you if you are not a sheep? I mean going along with the analogy jesus introduces. Maybe you weren’t aware that he called us all sheep?
    maybe you weren’t aware how reliant we are on God- for almost everything-understanding-life-breath-time-teaching.
    THE LORD CONFOUNDS THE LEARNING OF THE WISE…

    anyway I’ve gotta stop…
    Rants produce rants produce rants produce rants.

    🙂

  6. I just wanted you to know that we have been watching him in our prayer meeting over at an older couples house every night. Which really disapoints me because this now replaces our usual Bible reading time! I caught unto his tricks not too long after we started watching this Joker throw people around. I’m a born again Christian and I love Jesus with all my heart! I don’t like to see people make a mockery of my Lord and Saviour! He though seems to make a game out of it nightly in Lakewood Florida! At first I wasn’t sure if he was for real or not but as soon as I seen him start kneeing people in the stomach I was completely convinced that this guy is a fake! I mean what’s next, giving some poor guy with neck problems a stone cold stunner? I mean, I believe in healing and all but from what I’ve seen this guy is just nothing more than an entertainer who is out to get yours and my money! Maybe he should consider becoming a WWE superstar instead of a preacher! We need to be praying for mercy on the poor guys soul so that he finds the truth soon and quits making such a mockery of our Lord and Saviour!

    Sincerly,

    Kevin <

    Phil: Welcome to Theology Today…..I saw that knee to the midsection….like Bam Bam Biggalo!

  7. Andrew,

    I’ve never accused you of using exegesis…..I said eisegesis which reads into what has been written….was I wrong?

    I used the words “we” and “us” plenty in the Silly Sheeple Syndrome” article…..so I suppose one who can read with some understanding could come to the conclusion I meant me as well….sorry that I didn’t make myself more clear….

    Have a nice day and thanks for stopping by Andrew!

  8. One of the sneaky errors that has birthed these movements and heresies is the “wanting more from God”. The speeple have chased entertainment and emotionalisim. Christian rock, christian plumbers, christian car repair, christian carpet cleaning, are nothing more than marketing and have nothing to do with evanglism. When I see someone marketing their craft as “christian” nothing could be further from the truth.

    Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation;(do you understand that, you who are looking for a move of God) “nor will they say, See here or see there!” “For indeed the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke17:20,21

    All these people and their defenders are saying is, “see here or see there”. See! See! See!

  9. Pastor Stephen Strader….the clown who brought this whole hoax to Lakeland…..running around like a fool….with his ever present laptop in hand….pretending to be “drunk in the spirit”….falls down…..only he was VERY careful with his PC…..clutching it closely to his chest as he “falls down”…..then calmly gets up and walks over to his chair and sits down…..as if nothing ever happened

    Lol

    This is very funny. I think they will sell more in the movie industry.

  10. Interesting. I suppose there will always be naysayers. I mean weren’t the Pharisee’s one of them? I suppose they missed an outpouring of God. Which means it’s possible to be looking for God and miss him because the packaging didn’t look right. Most of the problem here is that people don’t like the packaging, but if we can look beyond that and see that peoples lives are being transformed and they are standing up and making commitments to Jesus Christ…isn’t that what it is all about? Yes you will always have false in with the real because Satan is a counterfeiter. But that doesn’t take away the real. It just makes it messier and the last time I checked, the Bible I read was pretty messy at times.

    As far as catchers not falling. Anyone who has ministered under the anointing or attended a meeting where the anointing was knows that you don’t have to step into it. It’s all a choice. As a matter of fact, you can come to the meetings, and not feel God at all. It all depends if you are willing to submit to God and receive what he has for you. It’s kind of like salvation. Salvation can come to the masses and you could stand there and not feel anything or want it either.

    Most who attend are walking away from the event more in love with Jesus. I would say that is pretty good fruit. Let’s be careful not to bash what we don’t understand and let’s recognize that we are all on the same team. Let’s stop wasting our time ripping apart the body of Christ and let’s start using our efforts to take back the enemies territory for the Kingdom of God.

    Phil: Hi Julie….welcome to Theology Today. How do you “step into an anointing?

  11. Phil the kneeing in the stomach although wouldn’t be my style, is Todd’s personality. I think God uses us in different ways, allowing who we are to come through. We are, after all one in Christ, yet all of
    us are different. To say Todd is making is to say you can see into a man’s heart, only God knows what’s in his heart. I see him more as having fun and being in the joy of the Lord. Enjoying how God is using him, enjoying what he’s doing with God, enjoying God.

    Todd is NOT perfect and like ALL of us will make mistakes. When I see these websites and the type of criticisms disguised as discernment, it reminds me of this verse: Mt 7:3 – “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

    It’s ok to have questions, to talk things out. Todd has taken on what most of us won’t our wouldn’t and it’s just way to easy to have a critical spirit. The people are hungry, hungrier than I’ve ever seen people in this country for God. That’s an awesome thing. And God has used Todd to bring it to the forefront and push it forward.

    Despite what you think of Todd, God is and can move anywhere and at anytime and through anyone. It isn’t so much Todd bringing God to the people, it’s the hunger of the people that is moving God.

    Todd has stated over and over again, that it’s not about him, it’s about God and we ALL, ALL of us need to be going out in the highway’s and byways and doing the stuff.

    I asked myself when I first started listening to Todd is this God? Some things were so foreign to me, I had questions. But I always came back to the same conclusion. What are his fruits? How many people are being saved, delivered, healed? Verse the one’s that are doing the criticizing. It’s so easy to say, why aren’t limbs growing back, ha, he’s a fake. It would appear to me that this thing is progressive and it WILL happen.

  12. Thank You Julie and ladyofFe!!
    I feel embarassed for commenting on this website so much. It’s true- lets not Judge by the packaging.
    And Julie is right that God will not grab you and throw you to the ground with his presence, You have to be submitting to him-desiring his presence- that’s how you ‘step into the annointing’ surrender.
    LadyofFE summed up what I have been trying to say-with scripture!! It is very clear!
    to say these things you are writing about todd
    “is to say you can see into a man’s heart, only God knows what’s in his heart”

    is that Not biblical?
    But the truth is that no man has the ability to see another’s heart- it is all throughout scripture- BUT GOD KNOWs.

    if you are judging this by it’s fruit- you will be forced to praise God for the good he has wrought-

    So Phil, how exactly are you discerning the deception of this revival?
    You might realize that the false prophets in mathew 24:24 work many signs and wonders- you may realize that Todd has not done a single ‘sign’ or wonder’, all he does on stage is ask people “AND GOD healed you!?!?” “WOW” , He is just using the stage to amplify the testimony of what God Does. Todd admits that it’s nothing he does-ever! The laying of Hands- or praying for helps some people with their faith- human contact is of God- he wants us to pray for each other and bless each other.

    all he does is interview them- half of them fall down before he does his little bam or whatever- which he is enjoying- because of the freedom God’s love provides for people to be themselves. After all Jesus loves us and our” tattoos”, insert whatever you want.
    Jesus loves us and our “critical blogs” 🙂

    Just be careful what you judge with. Can you see into the inner motives of a man’s heart?

    We can all use our opinions- and whether or not we like tattoo’s or loud people. but that’s really just noise.
    because it means nothing.

    Phil: Thanks Andrew….I for one am growing very fond of your comments….don’t be embarrassed for posting on my site……have a great day!

  13. “The silly sheeple looking for a sign deserve to be shorn by Bentley…they’ve been warned that what is happening in Lakeland isn’t of God….and they have ignored the warnings and plunged headfirst…or backwards in many cases…into a Satan induced hoax…and they have no one to blame but themselves.”

    …….

    Who warned these silly sheeple? was it theology today?
    what are you talking about- Shorn by bentley?
    strange.

  14. Andrew,

    The warnings about Bentley are littered all over the Internet.

    Shorn sounded better then fleeced.

    Have a nice day!

  15. in re to Todd bentley- my friends who just spent 12 days in Fla. at the revival told me I am to “honor all men” as it says in 1 Peter 2:i7. I wasn’t quite sure what to say. I told her that these days I prefer truth without mixture and that Todd bentley gives me the creeps. These are some of my closest friends. I feel like I’m the one who is wrong. Thanks for a place to think out loud. Shelly petrahahn@charter.net

  16. Phil and the warnings about Jesus were littered all over Palestine by the religious leaders.

  17. UM….

    so you saw some people go up to be healed….they laughed and fell down…..

    and you did not believe it, because no dead person got raised from the dead, or a lost limb was not restored?

    did anyone get healed? do you know, or not know?

    just curious…I do not know this preacher…..

    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

  18. to Julie:

    Wow, satan must really want this movement to die bad. Look at all of the critical attacks the whole revival is receiving. It’s not just Todd, it’s anyone who has anything to do with it. People are being healed, set free, delivered and saved. I’ve seen at least on 2 occasions where Todd cast out a demon from a person and you could see it. I hear Todd saying all the time, this isn’t about me, this is about Jesus, all of you should be doing this.

    I have several questions for those poking fun at and being overly critical and calling it discernment, of God’s work. How many have you brought to Christ in the last week? How many people have been healed when you laid hands on them? How many demons have you cast out in Jesus name this past week? Or do you just plain not believe those things can happen? What part of saved, healed, delivered don’t you understand? Do you believe the moment you are saved you are perfect in every way? Cause that’s what your expecting of Todd Bentley. I’ve seen some of the catchers go down when Todd touched the person they were catching.

  19. I have not been to the revival – but the thing that comes to mind when reading your comments – on the day of Pentecost – the people were thought to be “drunk”. There is no box that can contain God and His divine nature and divine manifestations.
    Your comments, my friends, are accusing and cruel. At least Todd Bentley is giving the glory to God – giving a opportunity for people to be healed and encouraged to believe God’s Word – we are not to judge – only pray for our brothers and sisters. Peter Wagner recently reviewed the beliefs and ministry of Extreme Prophetic, at their request, after accusations from “concerned” people were made. He found the ministry to be doctrinally sound. Todd Bentley has a healing ministry – I would encourage you to spend more time “about the Father’s business”. The Father can take care of His children and guide them as needed. Please love the way the Father does and pray. God Bless!

  20. wow-unbelievalbe what you wrote-when I am worshiping my heart out-TO GOD-please don’t tell me I am stupid or a SHEEPLE as you put it. Did you even know that this is a FREE country to pursue and worship as a person sees fit? Shame on you! You are judgemental and ill informed. I do have discernment and I KNOW what this revival has done for me-brougth me back to JESUS-do you have a problem with that? Or do you just need to focus on a man. One finger pointing-three pointing back at yourself!

  21. Well I take a break to sit my exams, and it turns out Bentley is cranking it up a notch. I wonder if any one will explain to Bentley what baptism of fire really means from a Bible perspective…

  22. @ Andrew,

    You said: “Thank You Julie and ladyofFe!!
    I feel embarassed for commenting on this website so much. It’s true- lets not Judge by the packaging.
    And Julie is right that God will not grab you and throw you to the ground with his presence, You have to be submitting to him-desiring his presence- that’s how you ’step into the annointing’ surrender.
    LadyofFE summed up what I have been trying to say-with scripture!! It is very clear!
    to say these things you are writing about todd
    “is to say you can see into a man’s heart, only God knows what’s in his heart”
    is that Not biblical?
    But the truth is that no man has the ability to see another’s heart- it is all throughout scripture- BUT GOD KNOWs”.

    Ever heard of Saul of Tarsus Andrew? I’d be embarrassed if I were you too….

    @ Marianne,
    Haven’t seen any actual medical confirmation that anyone has been healed…they have claimed that 8 have been resurrected from the dead….including a 3 year old girl in Orlando…I’ve contacted the hospital and have yet to here from them…..

  23. Yeah come on! Who are you to criticize this drunken, drunken glory” that God speaks of us enjoying. Lighten up and enjoy the party while it the music is still playing! Don’t you want to get a healing and live forever, because it’s transferable you know? Just try a taste from the fruit of the tree of life that God has provided for us through Todd’s ministry and you won’t be sorry.

    We should pray on behalf of Todd that the “Winds of Change” angel shows you more understanding about this now…

    Fire fire fire! Burn burn burn! That should help you see the truth.

  24. LadyofFe,

    So because it’s in Bentley’s personality to knee someone in the stomch that makes it ok?

    You say you saw a demon being cast out….what did this demon look like?

  25. Hey Phil,

    I think some of these folks have already ordered their New Charsimatic Bible. Check it out,
    http://boydmiller.wordpress.com/

    Phil: I think you’re right…..hit the link everyone and see the new bible everyone seems to be quoting from!

  26. Geez Dan, getting healed is extremely biblical. As for dying at some point. We all will, but, you don’t have to go at the hands of the enemy. Look at the old testament God took many of the father’s. It says when Moses died he was still able to see well. God can you know, take your last breath and heartbeat. There is no reason for a Christian to die some horrible death brought on by satan. Do you have any idea the anguish and pain it causes familys, not to mention money, when someone in the family dies of cancer or other horrible diseases? Do you think that’s God? If you do, you are sadly mistaken.

    Even if you truly in your heart of hearts believe what you are saying. Do you honestly think your sarcasm is Godly?

    How can a Christian prevent dying a horrible death from Satan? Job 1 says Satan has to get permission….what if God allows Satan to do this for His further Glory?

    Sarcasm is very biblical….”Emascalate yourself” was what Paul told the Jews in reference to their belief that all should be circumsized….very sarcastic indeed…

  27. Phil,

    Yes I saw the demon. The woman came up on stage to get prayed for, when Todd laid hands on her, her voice and her features changed. She began shaking her head back and forth, she bared her teeth, her eyes got real big and bulged out, she hunched down and she started to scream.

    Your kind of a doubting Thomas aren’t you? You know these things are all biblical.

    FYI I was healed of liver cancer 6 years ago and it is documented. Also, people are starting to bring up there doctor reports when they come up. Many have been healed over the internet and tv. They go get a doc report and bring it up on stage to Todd. One man had terminal cancer and was completely healed. I’m sure not everyone that says there healed is. When you aren’t well you want to be healed so badly sometimes you think that you are. It is God’s will for everyone of His children to be well and completely whole. There are many reasons why people get healed and many why they don’t, but, I know one thing for sure, it is God’s will to heal every diseases and ever affliction.

    Phil: Can I share a story with you from my seminary days? Some of my friends and I called up Bob Larson and one of us (not me…I was too busy laughing) pretended to be a “demon”…Bob went through his schtick and cast out this imaginary demon over the phone…..then nattered on and on about this for days….and sorry to say I place Bentley in the same category.

    Praise God for your healing! How do you know what you are seeing are actual doctors reports?

  28. 1. If someone was raised from the dead, they could produce a death certificate….

    2. if there is a devil to come out, you do not see the demon when it comes out…you can feel it, if you are close enough, but not see it….so you cannot ask what it looked like…also, there will be a personality change in the person that will be obvious….

    Phil:1). Haven’t seen any death certificates…and they are welcome to send a copy to me for confirmation.2). What does a demon “feel like”? Can this be “staged”? Have you ever cast out a demon Marianne?

    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

  29. Here goes the sheeple defending their pimps as usual.

    I would say that people don’t want to learn. They prefer to be spoon fed. They act so emotional and sentimental when you point them to the truth. I sincerely wonder if their allegiance is to God’s word or their man of gawd.

    You got that right bodymiller.

  30. Naomijt why do you think that this movement of God is wrong? Other than name calling, which is very unchrist like, you don’t really give any solid reasons. Personal opinions and attacks on what is going on in a persons heart don’t count. And being drunk in the Spirit is biblical.

  31. 1Cor 4:6 “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

    Jer 23:25 “I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, ‘I had a dream! I had a dream!’

    Hmmmm

    From Todd Bentley – Redeeming Kingdom Dreams –

    Field of Dreams: In this teaching Todd speaks of God’s desire to reveal and fulfill prophetic dreams and destinies of believers from past generations, as well as the personal dreams each of us carry in our hearts today.

    It is beyond my understanding how anyone can come here and defend this man.

  32. Lady of Fe,

    Would you mind giving me the scriptural support for being slain in the spirit?

  33. Dorothy,

    2 Chronicles 5:13-14 Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud, and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the temple of God.

    Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.

    Don’t you think in the presence of an Almighty Powerful God the physical reaction would be to fall down or become incapacitated?

    Phil: Where was the cloud? Where was Jesus?

  34. Ah well, looks like you already have your mind made up. It’s to bad. God can come in power and knock your socks off if He wanted to. Would you say the same things your saying right now to Moses? After all, before Moses no one had ever seen a burning bush before. The Priest in the Old Testement couldn’t stand in the Glory cloud either.

    1 Kings 8:11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

    Phil: Since you’ve brought up Moses heres a verse you can consider;
    Exodus 40:34-35 (ESV) Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud settled on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

    Or maybe this passage could be of help as well;
    2 Chronicles 7:1-3 (ESV)
    1 As soon as Solomon finished his prayer, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple. 2 And the priests could not enter the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord filled the Lord’s house. 3 When all the people of Israel saw the fire come down and the glory of the Lord on the temple, they bowed down with their faces to the ground on the pavement and worshiped and gave thanks to the Lord, saying, “For he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever.”

    Notice how they “bowed down with their faces….no falling backwards like the majority of folks I see “slain in the spirit”.

  35. Hi LadyofFe,

    While he did a good job of trying to defend it, the end result is this:

    So while we do have some indications and incidence of this kind of general experience in the scripture, we aren’t able to make any truly direct comparisons.

    At least he was being honest about his position. There are no direct comparisons.

    Phil, I saw the ORU and Finney connections too – so taking things beyond “what is written” is not surprising.

  36. LadyofFE,

    The examples you have given were not before men or at the direction of men. Is Bentley your god?

  37. 1 Kings 8:11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

    How many Christian denominations are there? And how many of them do you agree with everything they do? And does it really matter weather you agree with them or not.

    See, I don’t believe that if you aren’t slain in the spirit or never speak in tongues or never get healed or never have any spiritual experiences, except of course salvation, you will never get to heaven. I only see many denominations and other Christians not getting the fullness of what God has for them. Either because they deny certain things, for instance and I’m not speaking about every individual church, Lutheran’s do not believe in divine healing, neither do Baptist. Baptists don’t believe in speaking in tongues. How much of what the church does is just man made traditions? Matthew 15:6 Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. And there are many other differences among the denominations. Does it mean they are all heretics? Which one’s are and which one’s aren’t? Are you just picking and choosing? Or just picking on?

  38. The Harvest is RIPE The Harvest is pierced and tattoed.
    Looks like a perfect tool for the kingdom of God.
    Jesus offended all the Religious people of His day.
    He used spit to heal a blind man. He cast out devils.
    He healed the woman in the church who had a spirit of Infirmity
    for 16 years was bound and the religious minds were offended the
    healed on the Sabbath.

    Well angels and visions were also so common in the bible that
    To me ….Todd looks more like Jesus and your words sound like the
    same voices in Jesus day trying to bring him down.

  39. Hi LadyofFe,

    You said: Ah well, looks like you already have your mind made up.

    Nooooo, but it appears you do – it’s just that I make every effort to not adopt practices or confessions that are not supported by scripture. As the piece you linked to explained – there isn’t any support for being “slain in the spirit”, so I would have to ask why anyone would make a practice of it.

    Doesn’t that give you any sense of pause?

    In Eph 5 Paul spoke of being “filled” with the Spirit. That filled is not in the aspect of pouring water in a cup, drinking it, and having to refill it. It is in the aspect of being under the control of the Spirit. It is speaking of authority, nothing else. It is a surrendering of our will to His Will and we do that by surrendering our bodies, time, talents, etc – every single area of our life to God’s Glory.

    A Spirit-filled person is one in which the Word of Christ dwells richly….Period…It is to come to understanding of Christ as revealed in scripture – not some three ring circus act with people NOT in control. Self control is part of the process – NOT lack of it.

  40. Phil asked……

    What does a demon “feel like”? Can this be “staged”? Have you ever cast out a demon Marianne?

    Yes, i have cast out 8 at one time….but I have only done this once, and I was on the 40th day of a 40 day fast – no food, just water. So, it was a very exceptional time. I prayed for an Asian man who had asked for help at a prayer meeting. He could not speak English, but I understood what he wanted, and I could not speak Chinese. There was a room full of people, but God lead me over to him.

    Being on the fast made me very sensitive to the holy spirit, and I was able to follow instructions, and be amazed at God’s power and deliverance. It was very blessed moment for me. I will always remember what happened. The Chinese man and I seemed to be in our own world, while everyone else was occupied in other prayer activities. It was a private moment for both of us, and we both left the experience awe struck.

    A demon is not as powerful as he would have us think. He is actually very weak, and feels like a puff of air, about the size of a cotton ball, soft, not strong. I could feel each of the little puffs come out and hit my hand, which I held over the man’s head and abdomen areas. I know there were 8 because I could count each one as it left. I never touched the man, only held my hand about 6-8 inches over the area.

    Demons get their strength by the faith we have in them to do us harm. They have no authority except what we give them, because originally the authority was removed by the blood of Jesus.

    The devil tends to imitate what God does, so I would think there are many “staged” performances. People like to be the center of attention, and have people look at what “they” can do.

    There was nothing staged about my experience. It was quite the opposite. People were ignoring us, and it was done quietly, and in an orderly way. No one knew, except him and me. But it was an experience I am very grateful for.

    In difficult times, I remember back to this, as God was gracious enough to allow me to witness true deliverance, his faithfulness, and help build my confidence in His promises. Because of this, I can tell the difference between the real and the fake. I would say that most of what you see is fake, or at best, unsuccessful.

    Jesus did promise that true believers would cast out devils. But what has happened, is that people have turned such a precious experience into a circus act. Man’s ego is in the way of God, which hinders the work of the holy spirit, and produces shallow experiences which do not deliver the person at all.

    It is not God’s will to see his people tormented by demonic spirits. It IS his will to cast out the devils and deliver people. It is also his will to have believers help each other. But, sadly, people want to be important and famous.

    Scripture says that God resists the proud. So this also means that proud people do not have the power of God to use, because they just want to commercialize it and abuse it for themselves. This leaves many people without help, because there are very few trustworthy ministers. Casting out demons requires death to the flesh. The flesh is very much alive in most people, so they are not fit to handle the delicate matter of someone’s soul in their care.

    To be of use to someone in need is a very humbling moment, because it is God, not the person, at work.

    God bless you, and thank you for asking.

    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

  41. I will very much say the same thing Phil.

    Ladyoffe,
    If you can go through this site diligently, you will find enough warnings and teachings about false teachers. The idea of laughing uncontrollably or convulsing sounds pretty demonic ( his so-called “baptism of fire”). Any practice or action that can’t be backed by scriptures is certainly not from God.

  42. Naomi, I have gone over this over and over again. Please bear with me, this is going to be long. I have asked myself probably the same questions you are asking.

    This is how I came to my conclusion. I see the fruit of this ministry and others like it. I have diligently searched the scriptures and prayed. I see the fruit and the fruit is good. Matthew 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. People ARE being saved, set free, I’ve seen several demon possessed people set free, and people being healed and miracles. I DO NOT see this going on in the average American church. Most churches deny that there are even demons or demon possessed people, some deny healing and miracles, still others deny the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Do you question there beliefs and man-made traditions and practices, as closely?

    Todd does not deny Jesus at all or who He is. They profess Jesus is Lord of lord’s and King of kings, son of the Most High God, died and raised back to life, coming again, saved us from sin. Does Todd Bentley have all the answers and does he do everything right. No. If you are looking for perfection your going to have to look to Jesus no ministry will be perfect.

    Luke 24:52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

    If you laugh with joy in the flesh, how much more would it be in the spirit? What does great joy look like? This is the definition for the word Great – Long continued; lengthened in duration; prolonged in time; as, a great while; a great interval – Superior; admirable; commanding; — applied to thoughts, actions, and feelings. Large in space; of much size; big; immense; enormous; expanded;

    Satan mimics what God does, so it would seem anything you see in spiritual realm of God, satan is going to try to mimic. So if you have ever seen anyone demon possessed it never looks like what I’m seeing now. The person will usually start foaming at the mouth, afterwards they will be like someone that has been devastated. It will be very negative to the extreme. On the other hand if you have been slain in the spirit, it is always pleasant even though it looks painful. And it always, ALWAYS brings you closer to God and more like Him.

    “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” (Matthew 3:11)

    “John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”” (Luke 3:16)

  43. Dorthy,

    Nooooo, but it appears you do – it’s just that I make every effort to not adopt practices or confessions that are not supported by scripture.

    Your right I have made up my mind. Why would I ever want to go back to the way things were? Once you see the truth, once you know it, it is so freeing you can’t believe. I see the fruit. Being slain in the spirit is scriptural. The insistence that you must fall face down isn’t in the scriptures either and is nothing more than legalism.

    “… that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; so that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.” (2 Chronicles 5:14)

    “And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” (Revelation 1:17)

    “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.” But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” (Matthew 17:6)

    “And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” (Acts 9:3-4)

    “So I arose and went out into the plain, and behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face.” (Ezekiel 3:23)

    “And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory. It was like the appearance of the vision which I saw – like the vision which I saw when I came to destroy the city. The visions were like the vision which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face.” (Ezekiel 43:2-3)

    “Then He brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple; so I looked, and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord; and I fell on my face.” (Ezekiel 44:4)

    Some say they fell face down some scriptures don’t.

    Sometimes when the presence of God would show up like described in the above verses, people would fall to the ground. Other times God would manifest His presence and people would not fall to the ground. This was a manifestation that is completely controlled by God. He, and He alone, decides when people fall to the ground and when they do not, in His presences.

  44. Dorothy,

    You said – Self control is part of the process.

    I’ll agree with that. There will be some that will not have self control, over there flesh, because they don’t understand and they are trying to manifest in the flesh. These are babies in the Lord. Babies try to mimic adults, but, don’t know what they are doing. Given a chance and the right guidance they will get it.

    1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not put out the Spirit’s fire.

    Why would you try to control the Holy Spirit? He knows perfectly well what He’s doing. I’d much rather be under His control than the flesh.

  45. LadyofFe,

    Eight years ago, I was taken to my knees by God. I didn’t need a Bentley or anyone else to make that happen. The end result is that I had such a drive to know more about Him and that is still with me today. I know that I know that I know and am known. I have no doubt about my disposition or who is in charge despite your assertions.

    We are told to worship in Spirit AND Truth…and scripture is God breathed.

    2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Since you have declared a closed mind there is no useful purpose in continuing this conversation. You might be better served by going back and discussing with the author of the article you linked to and maybe he can explain why there is a doctrine you claim as truth and he claims has no sciptural support. It appears you two aren’t in agreement.

  46. Marianne,

    We have Scripture now and Bentley and his “teachings” don’t line up with Scripture.

    Jesus did miracles to validate His message….what exactly do the alleged “miracles” that are being claimed in Lakeland validating?

    Are you comparing Bentley with Jesus?

  47. Since you have declared a closed mind there is no useful purpose in continuing this conversation.

    I could say the same thing about you.

    I understand you don’t always need someone, but, most of the time you do. Just because something happened to you a certain way, doesn’t mean that God will always do it that way. In your particular case that’s the way He wanted it done or saw the need for it to be done.

    I was delivered by Jesus, without anyone else around. I had gone through a horrific time. Dealing with a retarded, autistic, seizure prone daughter, my health – to long to explain, my husband was in Iraq at the time this was the first Iraqi war, I had lost 3 babies and had suffered from years of abuse, not at the hands of this husband, I was alone and 3000 miles away from my family and friends. I wanted to die. I could sense something like a black cloud hanging over my head. Deep depression had set in. At the time I didn’t realize it was a demon. I was on my knees in prayer one day, crying out to God, why have you allowed so much to happen to me. I was almost on the verge of suicide, I was desperate. As soon as I said that, I felt complete and total unconditional love, I knew at that moment it was Jesus, He was standing behind me. He said, “It’s not been me.” At that moment I saw my tormentor, it was a demon, it backed away from me and disappeared. Talk about freedom…….that was about 20 years ago.

    I didn’t need a Todd Bentley at that moment either, but, God has chosen to work through His children most of the time. That’s why they call it a relationship and friendship with God, not a religion. If you think you can do everything on your own, God didn’t set it up like that. In my case and probably yours, it was God’s great grace and mercy in action.

  48. Phil,

    You know in all of your posts, all I have seen are attacks and no real substance. It would appear to me that you can’t defend your position, so your just attacking.

    Phil: All my posts? You’ve read them all….or those pertaining to Bentley? My position or the biblical position? There is a difference you know…..

    I noticed you haven’t commented on this posting…..why’s that?
    https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/05/02/heavens-realities-or-todd-bentleys-delusions/

    BTW: My not answering some of your comments doesn’t mean I can’t defend my “position” as you say. If you would like a one on one debate, we can arrange this….just choose a topic….then we’ll see what I know and what I don’t know….

  49. phil

    no. I am not saying Bently is like Jesus. I do not really know Bently.

    I was just addressing the issue that if something is not mentioned in scripture, then it cannot be true or real, because even Jesus was criticized for being “of the devil” when he did and said things that were not yet found in scripture.

    But Jesus was not adding to scripture in the sense that it was heresy. He was explaining the true meaning of the original scripture. But some thought he was making up things.

    So I was just trying to say that sometimes what we could possibly see is something we do not interpret properly, and so we think it is heresy or evil, when it actually may be correct, according to God. We all need enlightenment constantly as to deeper things of god.

    This does not mean that this Bently people are discussing here is correct, or maybe he is, in some things. I think I wrote something before, here or on another page, that he is dubious, if he cannot tell the difference between an angel and Jesus.

    There was some statement he made about an angel with feet of fire, but he could not tell if it was Jesus or not.

    Well, the bible is clear that His sheep will know Him. So that would shed doubt on Bently more than approval.

    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

    Phil: Bentley does add to Scripture….this whole Emma the angel thing for starters….where in the bible are there female angels? There aren’t but he wants to convince us there are. Its this and a WHOLE lot more that makes me doubt that this “revival” is the real thing.

  50. The bible mentions multitudes of angels….whether there are females as well, or just males, it does not say……

    it only mentions about 3 by name..we guess they are male by their names…..but we do not know much about the rest of them.

    interesting tradition ….when you see statues or pictures of angels…they are usually female…I wonder where that came from.

  51. Phil,
    You said:
    If you think I was critical or harsh before then you had better not read any further…..
    The folks standing behind these silly sheeple.

    Is that what a loving brother does, mock his sisters and brothers? It’s one thing to state your concerns and along with scripture to back up what you are thinking and feeling. But you name call and denigrate…geez… Criticism is not discernment. Your statements remind me of the religious leaders of Jesus time.

    Todd isn’t perfect but, most of what he is doing and saying is biblical. I don’t know one single solitary person, OR denomination that is perfect other than Jesus, who is perfect.

    There have been several people that were healed at Lakeland on the 700 club, with there prof.

    pretending to be “drunk in the spirit”
    How do you know he was pretending?

    Phil: Just my opinion based upon a LOT of knowledge about Bentley and his teachings…
    Ephesians 5:18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

    Why is getting drunk and being filled with the Holy Spirit mentioned in the same sentence?
    Acts 2:15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning!
    Did it appear on the day of Pentecost that those that had received the Holy Spirit appeared to be drunk? It sure looks like it to me.

    Phil: Nice eisegesis….Read Luke 1:15 and then tell me that’s what Paul meant in Ephesians 5:18….Acts 2:15 was the fufillment of Joel 2:28….

    I picture Satan laughing hysterically as well.
    Luke 24:52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
    What does great joy look like?
    Definition for the word Great – Long continued; lengthened in duration; prolonged in time; as, a great while; a great interval — applied to thoughts, actions, and feelings. Large in space; of much size; big; immense; enormous; expanded;
    The meaning of Joy – To take great pleasure; rejoice.
    To fill with ecstatic happiness, pleasure, or satisfaction.
    Now put the two meanings together.

    Yes…you are correct about the word joy…..but you are reaching a bit when you try and use this verse to validate being “drunk in the Spirit”. Read Galatians 5:22-23 and then tell me how barking like a dog or running around like a lunatic exhibits ANY of the Gifts of the Spirit?

  52. As a matter of fact angels are asexual.
    For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. Matt.22:30

    As for discernment, it really is quite easy. If they ask for money they are false. You cannot buy or sell the call of God. I realize this opinion is an offense to the traditions of the church and everything people have been taught, but never the less scriptural.

  53. LadyofFe,

    I noticed that you changed the topic. The topic was “slain in the spirit”. That’s the conversation I cut off because you said you were closed minded.

    You have not proved your position scripturally although you are convinced you have. You used a link that admits it’s not scriptural, and it does not give you cause to pause and reconsider.

    Since you are closed minded, then there is no need for further discussion on this topic. It will only be filled with strife.

    So moving forward – What is your definition of “baptism by fire”?

    That seems to be another area of dispute. Maybe progress could be made there since this is an area that Todd is focusing on also.

    Phil: She did reply….weakly…it was in the spam filter…

  54. Marianne,

    The Hebrews came out of Babylon with a highly developed doctrine of angelology and demonology. It’s basis was not scripture but fables, superstitions, etc.

    They also had no problem introducing magic into the battle against demons . Over and over and over in the NT we see Jesus attacking that belief system. Without some background of the political/religious environment of that century, we often get the wrong idea about issues found in NT scripture.

    Unfortunately, some of that Babylonian influence is still with us today and still in use and there are those who think an “experience” should superceed scripture when in fact scripture should validate or invalidate the experience.

  55. Marianne,

    You said: The bible mentions multitudes of angels….whether there are females as well, or just males, it does not say……

    it only mentions about 3 by name..we guess they are male by their names…..but we do not know much about the rest of them.

    interesting tradition ….when you see statues or pictures of angels…they are usually female…I wonder where that came from.

    The religious spirit, and religious traditions has such a strangle hold on many of God’s people.
    Matthew 15:6 Thus by your tradition you make null and void the word of God!

    The church of today, as a whole, looks nothing at all like the church in the book of Acts. But, THANK YOU GOD, we are being restored. At times it’s messy, it’s not always completely accurate but, we are learning and headed in the right direction.

  56. Ladyofe,

    What is your scriptural evidence that God is going to restore his church before the resurrection? I would be interested in your definition of the church? What about the man made tradition of giving money to theives like Bentley, where did Jesus teach that?

  57. Phil,

    You did explain a lot well, but, you still didn’t explain this: Acts 2:15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning!
    They obviously appeared drunk.

    I did have scriptures about being slain in the spirit, it looks like they were removed.

    I asked you this before and I haven’t seen an answer. What Christian denomination is 100% accurate? Which one has it all? Show me that church.

    boydmiller:
    not the point of As for discernment, it really is quite easy. If they ask for money they are false.
    You know that is really not a very realistic statement. How does your church run, is it all free?

    As a matter of fact angels are asexual.
    For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. Matt.22:30

    You are correct. We will still appear male and female even though we will be asexual, so I would think the angels would be the same.

    Phil: Because people were hearing languages that sounded like babble…they didn’t understand what they were hearing….they assumed drunkeness was the cause….but that still doesn’t equate to what we are seeing when someone is “slain in the spirit”……

    No you are correct that there is error within denominations….but that will always be the case…..but there is more here then just wine vs grape juice….Bentley claims to visit heaven daily….he claims to have met the Apostle Paul….he claims there is a “treasury room in heaven”….none of this is biblical……

    I didn’t remove anything in your comment LadyofFe……if you wish you can post them again and we’ll examine them……

  58. Ladyofe,

    Yes my church is all free, Jesus said to the seventy (10:1) carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. And in Matt. 10:8 he said freely you have received, freely give.

    I suppect you definition of a church is a building. Jesus said in Matt. 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” He didn’t say two or three hundred or two or three thousand. As a matter of fact Jesus avoided large crowds. You are caught up in the traditions of men and the excitement of a large gathering.

  59. not everything that God decides to has to be something the bible has record of….

    You know, tongues of fire, and speaking in tongues was not in the bible in the old testament….but it did happen in the new one. It was not rejected because no one had seen it before.

    the tribulation is ahead of us, and that has not happened before either.

    so with the logic here, since “slain in the spirit” was not in the bible, it cannot be real, since God never does anything that is not already in the bible.

    just thought i would throw that in….

    Phil: Being “slain in the Spirit” as we see in the majority of cases today is not biblical…..the Holy Spirit speaks of Christ and how can someone “slain in the spirit” barking like a dog or laughing uncontrollably be speaking of Christ Marianne?

  60. i am sorry you are so blind. i and many of my family have recieved genuine medically proven healings and miracles here in england, some such as blind eyes healed in a todd bentley meeting. so get your facts right and remember the wisdom of god is foolishness to man. i am only 28 and still wise enough to know that you are totally hindering the holy spirit, i guess you probably dont believe that jesus fed five thousand or that when he said in matthew 10 ‘go preach the gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons and cleanse the lepor’ that he actually meant it?

    Phil: Welcome to Theology Today Steven…..I believe the events as described in the bible are true because I believe that the bible is God’s Word……and I’ll believe you when you show me documented evidence that what you claim is true….specifically that you or someone you know was healed as a direct result of the Florida Outpouring….

  61. Hi Phil,

    If you are a born again Christian than you are citizen of heaven. Why can’t you visit heaven? Is there anywhere in the bible that says you have to be dead to visit heaven? I’ve also heard of others that have had heavenly experiences. Paul was one: 2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows.
    Acts 10:34 And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons –
    What God will do for one person, He will do for another.

    Ok here you go: slain in the spirit, might not be the best way of saying it. It does sound rather violent doesn’t it? But, it’s the language that is used to describe what happens.

    “… that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; so that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.” (2 Chronicles 5:14)

    “And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” (Revelation 1:17)

    “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.” But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” (Matthew 17:6)

    “And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” (Acts 9:3-4)

    “So I arose and went out into the plain, and behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face.” (Ezekiel 3:23)

    “And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory. It was like the appearance of the vision which I saw – like the vision which I saw when I came to destroy the city. The visions were like the vision which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face.” (Ezekiel 43:2-3)

    “Then He brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple; so I looked, and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord; and I fell on my face.” (Ezekiel 44:4)

    Some say they fell face down some scriptures don’t. I would think in the presences of our Holy Powerful God it would be very hard to stay standing.

    I have had numerous spiritual experiences over the past 32 years. I don’t question if someone tells me that they had a spiritual experience. You have to take people at there word. Even if I can’t explain it, or it doesn’t make sense to me. Even if they are lying through there teeth, you just can’t read a man’s heart, only God can do that. I do line things up with the bible, but, you know if someone says I saw a female angel, I can choose to ignore it, disbelieve it, or think maybe that’s not biblical, but, I don’t have to worship it. You can become so paranoid about things that everything that happens you panic. Oh no, was that God, was that satan, oh no. I don’t worry anymore, I have the bible, I have the Holy Spirit, and God loves His kids way beyond anything we could possibly imagine. I’m not saying, go be completely careless, but, I trust God to protect me. I don’t have all the answers, but, I have a Father who does and He loves me dearly and just like when I was a little girl and trusted my daddy to protect me, I also trust God. That’s the beauty of being loved by a Holy God, I can lean on Him, trusting that He will always be by my side. And I have the Holy Spirit: John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    Phil: Thanks for the list….we’ve dealt with most of this already, but let’s look at the beginning statement first ok?

    Those who visited heaven were Apostles…and they probably didn’t take as many trips as Bentley….but look at the Apostles teachings….they don’t contradict each other the way Bentleys contradicts the Apostles teachings….that’s a good indication that something isn’t quite right about this….either the Apostles are lying or Bentley is…you decide.

    Thanks for the passages….and they really don’t make the case for being “slain in the spirit”……especially not in light of what we are witnessing today ie barking like a dog, crazy laughter and running around like they had ants in their pants…..John 15:26 says the Holy Spirit speaks of Christ….and this doesn’t resemble the Jesus of Scripture…

    As far as your experience go they are just that….your experiences. I’m not going to question your experiences but I will question someone who desires to Spiritually lead others as Bentley is doing….and his experiences don’t line up with Scripture….they actually add to it which is a big RED FLAG….

  62. Phil you said: Because people were hearing languages that sounded like babble…they didn’t understand what they were hearing….they assumed drunkeness was the cause

    They were speaking in other languages not anything close to babble. When someone is speaking another language I have never thought that person was drunk. Even if they are speaking in tongues, it still sounds like a language, it doesn’t sound like babble.

    Phil: I’m well aware of this LadyofFe…..what we hear today is babble….they are not speaking in tongues in the same manner as was recorded in Acts and 1Corinthians….we had a great discussion on the matter of tongues that you are free to peruse at your leisure;

    https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/a-discussion-on-tongues/

  63. Your old testament examples were before the Holy spirit had come . I suppose we would all fall on our faces before the Lord Jesus but it won’t be followed by a collection. Which of these apostles passed a plate before or afterwards? You cannot buy or sell the call of God, nor use it for profit which totally discounts anything that Bentley does. Have you ever seen the old footage of the women swooning and passing out when the Beatles came to America, how about recently at some of Obama’s gatherings. People get stirred up at large gatherings that has nothing to do with God. Why is it this slain in the spirit only occurs at meetings? Also from what I have seen they don’t fall on their faces but on their backs. Your still sounding like so many last generation folks. This is a teaching false prophets have used for years , every generation since about 100AD . Jerry Falwell used it for fifty years to build his empire, as did Oral Roberts. This is a very appealing to self-importance.

  64. Phil

    There are real and fake versions of everything.

    So there are real “slain in the spirit” experiences….and there are fake ones. That is why we need discernment to tell the difference.

    Barking like a dog would indicate a fake one.

    the glory of God produces good fruit, not bad fruit

    1. it has to continue to glorify and dignify God
    2. it has to produce positive results

    if it does neither, then it is fake

    if it fulfills both requirements, then it is real.

    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

    Phil: There are many (including myself) that consider Todd Bentley to be a tattood version of Benny Hinn….both are off theologically and both are heavily into experinces such as visions, dreams and visitations. Any thoughts?

  65. Hi Phil,

    It doesn’t say how often they went to heaven in the bible. I don’t think God is counting. He can take as many people as He wants to, in any manner He wants to, and how often He wants to.

    As far as Todd leading people. How many pastors are leading flocks in this country who are so far off they aren’t even close to what the first century church was like. What about them? Yes it might only be a church of a 100 or 200, but, there are thousands of churches just like that in America today.

    I see Todd as leading the charge in restoration of what the first century church was like, to become more and more like God wanted the body of Christ to be. Read the book of Acts again and tell me just how many churches today look anywhere near to that.
    Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
    Jesus COMMANDED us to do these things. How many churches do you see doing THESE same things or even trying?

    As far as healing all the sick, Jesus couldn’t heal everyone. Notice I didn’t say wouldn’t, but, couldn’t. I never give up praying over someone. No matter what I see in the natural. I myself haven’t seen the level of healing Todd has, but, I won’t give up just because I don’t see it. And I won’t be deterred by naysayers. I see Todd as doing the same. He is seeing a greater and greater degree of healing and miracles. I won’t give up until I have the same mantel Paul had to heal the sick.
    Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do EVEN GREAT THINGS than these, because I am going to the Father. John 14:12
    I don’t see greater yet, do you? But, if Jesus said we would do greater, than it’ll happen, but, it won’t happen if we are just waiting around. God’s waiting on us. We have to get up and began to make a demand on what God has already, ALREADY, commissioned us to do. Will it be all orderly and completely free of any messes. Nope, it’ll be messy we are human after all. If we wait until we are perfect and know everything, it’ll never happen. Jesus never said, wait around until I tell you to go or wait around until you are perfect and know everything. He said DO THEM, I go to be with my Father.

    You hardly see any churches today that, Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

    Phil: I don’t know if you noticed, but this site is mainly to warn others about the wolves…Todd Bentley and what’s happening in Lakeland is only a small part of this sites contents…..

    I see Todd and those like him not leading a restoration but ushering in the antichrist…..

  66. The greater works statement in John14:12 was made to the 12 apostles at the last supper and they surely fulfilled this statement. To understand scripture you have to know to whom Jesus is speaking to. One of the greater works was, that people were healed that the shadow of Peter and John passed on and even their handekerchiefs were brought to the sick and they were healed. That was a greater work. Jesus also had Peter go catch a fish and take a coin from it’s mouth to pay his taxes. Is that how you and Bentley pays yours? Bentley does nothing for free. Phil you have it exactly right! You cannot justify one false prophet and peddler just because their are many others out there.

    Phil: Well said my friend…context is everything and apparently people have the Narcissist’s Study Bible…and quote often from it. People still don’t believe that the Bible may be written for you but it wasn’t written to you….which is why these “revivals” grow legs the way they seem to do.

  67. Hello, boydmiller:

    Your post about “[t]he greater works statement in John 14:12” triggered a few of my remaining brain cells to search out Yomi’s excellent treatment of this issue:
    http://www.yomisays.com/?p=636
    This is a good read.

    2 Corinthians 13:5,
    Peter

  68. I do not know if I can compare Benny Hinn and Bently, because I do not really know Bently.

    I think when it comes to dreams and visions, in itself…they can be real and come from God.

    Then there are the ordinary dreams (not visions, unless someone considers a dream a “night vision.”) that are common to every person.

    We dream about our subconscious thoughts and impressions, sometimes in realistic form, and sometimes in symbolic form. This is just the human mind working through issues.

    I could not really state if someone’s particular claim to a dream/vision was real or not real, unless I could hear what is was, line it up with scripture, evaluate the person’s personal response to the dream, and see how it effected them.

    For example, nebuchanezar was an unrighteous man, but he had a dream from God. His dream, however, was to God’s glory since only a hebrew believer could interpret it, and it was meant as prophecy for mankind in general. The king ended up as a believer in Daniel’s God, which is a significant positive result.

    You can also have true , but misguided, believers imagining that every dream they have is from God, because they want to impress others as being spiritual.

    A real dream from God will dramatically effect the person, and draw that person closer to God. They will never forget the details. It will also significantly impact anyone who hears it. It will humble the person, not exalt him, because the result of a God sent dream is to ultimately glorify god, not man.

    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

  69. Hi Phil,

    I see Todd and those like him not leading a restoration but ushering in the antichrist…..

    Couldn’t disagree with you more.

    Phil: That is absolutely your perogative to believe in what Bentley is doing…..even if what he teaches is contrary to Scripture…after all you are not alone in your support of this man and “his revival”. May God richly bless you in your search for the truth LadyofFe.

  70. Hi Phil,

    I’ll leave you with this verse: Luke 5:39 And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, “The old is better.”

    Phil: I’ll leave one for you as well: 2 Timothy 4:1-4 (ESV) I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths

  71. Marianne,

    I have a couple of questions for you. What is your position on Benny Hinn? I saw your reference to him.

    Also, as a matter of curiosity, are you dispensationalist? I noticed that you referred to the tribulation as a future event.

  72. Dorothy,

    Benny Hinn does some things right and some things wrong. That is my position. It really depends on the specific issue.

    I am not sure if I am a dispensationalist or not. I think a tribulation is coming and Jesus will return.. There also has been 2000 years of history of tribulation, at times, for saints in the past. Look at the time the saints were thrown to the Lions in ancient Rome.

    We can all have our own tribulations without going through the last one. I think there may or may not be a rapture, but when it occurs, I am not sure. Jesus in Matt 25 made it sound like it would come after Jacobs’ trouble. Other texts imply it might come before, or during the tribulation. I personally do not care, because I do not think I will be here anyhow.

    Phil: What in your opinion does Benny Hinn do right?

  73. Hi Marianne,

    I have been following your posts and so now I know where you are in your study. How well I remember my questions in these areas. I did study my way through them and I’m sure you will too.

    May I be so bold to suggest that since these are issues you have with God’s Word that they not be treated with the “do not care” approach. I realize you probably didn’t mean it the way it came across to me, but I do think it is very easy for us to be lax in study and quench our desire to reconcile tough issues. There have been times when I’ve wanted to throw in the towel, but please don’t miss the joy of Him revealing answers to you.

    I see said the blind soldier who picked up His sword and saw.

    There is a lot to your unreconciled topics that will strengthen you. I encourage you to find the answers.

  74. Hi, first and last post-don’t expect to make much difference

    I was at lakeland. I loved it. I felt the strong presence of God. During worship I cried, I knelt, I shouted, I called on Jesus, and I shook/vibrated for 10 plus minutes. I was at 4 night and 4 morning services. I voluteered as a helper for several services. Todd doesn’t even take an offering until 11:30 at night–not the best time because many have left by then, and none of the GodTV vewers are part of the offering. nubb said.

    I sat next to two people who were healed at the meeting-out of 10 people I sat next to. One was a hand injury-cut nerve and tendon from window pane accident-you could see the scars-the little finger tendon was tied to the ring finger tendon so it would move. Her feeling and INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT was restored. She didn’t have a certificate. She was just thrilled. She didn’t even get “prayer”, the Lord just did it during a service. Another person had an internal hernia that caused pain and sleep trouble. Healed.
    I also saw so many people praying for each other, encouraging each other, loving each other, what a bond of Christ in that place. It was like being in heaven. I met 2 groups of people getting my rental car. We shared, we praised God, etc. At every turn I experience God, in some way.
    I saw one woman testify with three sons that had eye problems. A woman from our church got an email from her friend where this woman attends their church in Texas, and confirmed the healing (unsolicited).
    There are desparate people there. I prayed for a lady whose daughter had autism-beautiful little girl. I prayed for the WalMart clerk’s daughter. I prayed for the lady on the plane next to me for her bulging discs. I am much more ready to pray for people now. If we think prayer and faith are real, then why would we be so ready to disbelieve? And we aren’t perfect in our understanding and gifts, but let’s at least get on the field and try. Isn’t there enough cynicism in the media and the world? Can’t we at least give each other a break? I come from the church or Christ background. I KNOW what legalism looks like.
    Who did prayer cloths before Paul? HERESY!! How many burning bushes happened before Moses saw one? HERESY!! Jesus was a stumbling block to the Jews-go figure-because he did not match their theology. Paul struck someone blind-HERESY!! Jesus appeared to practice medicine on the sabbath-HERESY!! Elisha laid a stick on a boy to resurrect him HERESY!! Can’t God do a new thing?? You can always find some little point to argue over whether it’s “scriptural” or not. Paul says we’re saved by grace not works, James says faith without works is dead. Which is it? See how you could use a verse to point the finger?
    It’s the same Spirit, the same God working, but a different manifestation. The Bible does not contain every God encounter and every event of the Spirit. Just because it isn’t specifically described in the Bible doesn’t mean God is not in it. I am not talking about sin and morality, etc, but the FORM of the move of God. EVERY event in the Bilble was new, so every person who did something not done before is a heretic. I vibrated/ shook/ tremored before the Lord. It was wonderful. I stopped a couple of times trying to figure it out, and then I just abandoned myself to the Lord. I love Him so much.
    God is creative, let Him alone and quit being so cynical and judgemental. Yes, everyone is not instantly totally healed. But some are, and some are healed as a process. Let’s bless the Lord for the miracles and for the healings, and press in so we can pray with better results in the future.
    I love the body of Christ, even when they irritate me. Don’t let your mind and your traditions and personal preferences detour you from the move of God. Lakeland is an outpouring, not a theology school. Take it for what it is and be blessed.
    By the way, my son was INSTANTLY healed of a bad stomach ache when we laid hands on the TV and prayed in faith-instantly.

    God Bless,
    Dewjam

  75. Dorothy,

    Not sure what you are talking about. I am not “lost” in my studies. I do not have unresolved issues, and I do care about truth.

    One may think I have unresolved issues, when I do not make a committment on something. Some things I just do not wish to discuss.

    At least I don’t make comments like this:
    “I see said the blind soldier who picked up His sword and saw.”

    marianne

  76. Phil,

    Benny Hinn has put out a lot of good bible studies that do line up with scripture. You may disagree with some, but I am referring to many I have copies of. The majority of his bible studies are ok

    He has 2 orphanages which he built and finances. He finances a hospital in India for the poor.

    His music is nice.

    His staff is nice too, and are devoted Christians.

    marianne

  77. I am amazed that anyone could attribute the title of christian to those like Hinn. The very most basic of christian principles is to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Lev.19:18,Matt.22:36,Rom.13:9,Gal5:14,James2:8). If you love your neighbor as yourself then how could you take their money to enrich yourself? If you love your neighbor as yourself then how could you ask them to borrow(use a credit card) to support you?

    If someone says, “I love God” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen. 1John4:20

    Benny Hinn is a liar of the lowest degree.

  78. Hi Marianne,

    Oprah Winfrey has an orphanage….so maybe we should start listening to her and Eckhart Tolle?

    Benny Hinn has a minimal understanding of anything related to theology….anyone who would say “there’s nine of em” when refering to the Godhead is far from sound….

    His music is nice? Now that has got to be one of the silliest statements I’ve ever heard in defense of Benny Hinn….his music is nice….are you for real? Glenn Campbell has nice music too but I certainly wouldn’t take any spiritual advice or allow him to teach me the meat of the Word……

    I think you confused this site with one of those feel good lets all be friends and look for the good in ministries….this isn’t one of them…….

    Benny Hinn is a liar Marianne…..Benny Hinn is a false prophet Marianne…Benny Hinn is a theological lightweight Marianne….Benny Hinn is a heretic Marianne…Please don’t try and defend that lunatic here unless you can show me clearly by God’s Word that I am wrong.

  79. Phil,

    You asked me what was good about Hinn and I gave you an answer. Linking what I said, to things you disagree with, is inappropriate.

    Logically, just because A is true, does not mean B is true. Having an orphanage is a good thing. I never said it had anything to do with how much money he earns. the 9 persons thing is a dead issue. I read about it and that is not what he meant anyhow.

    I guess you don’t get paid at your job. It would be unchristian to take money from anyone.

    marianne

    Phil: Nice strawman Marianne….of course I get paid at my job….and extremely well….if I wasn’t good at it I wouldn’t get paid at all…

    I don’t have a problem with Hinn taking a “salary”…..its how he earns it is the issue….

  80. Hi Marianne,

    I think Phil pretty well covered it here. I will add that IF you think you have NO unresolved issues in scripture and can profess Benny Hinn to be sound, then I can say with full assurance, you do have some serious unresolved issues.

    Marianne, I know men who have studied for 50+ years and they would never be so bold as to make that claim and if they were here, they would tell you the same thing I am. Throw out the Benny Hinn tapes and get into some serious study. And no, you won’t find those books at Books-A-Million.

    If you want links to some good online books or a list of stores where you can find them in hardcopy, I’ll be glad to provide them.

    I challenge you to do this and in a year I can promise you that you will realize that what I’ve promoted to you has only served you for good.

    You can love me or hate me – it doesn’t matter to me. What does matter to me is that you get some sound teaching. Now if you can find fault with that, I don’t know what else to say.

  81. Marianne,

    One more thing…I did read your article on the frogs. You may want to check out a book called “When the Snakes Awake”. It’s a well documented theory that an earthquake in one part of the world can release gases into the soil and create what you were seeing in California.

    I ran across the book after the earthquake that triggered the tsunami. In Florida, I live in a rural area and might see 2-3 snakes per year. That week after the quake I saw 8 in 7 days. My son was overseeing a construction project in Jacksonville and they were having such a problem with the snakes they had to issue letter of caution to all their subcontractors.

    So, if this man’s theories are right, to see frogs in China and California, would indicate they reside on the same fault line and the gas in the ground that released the frogs in China is probably affecting those in California.

    Anyway, it’s an interesting read and quakes do have some affect on the animal kingdom. I thought I would pass this one since you had an interest in that area.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

  82. I have one thing to say. Only speak what is good and edifying. Other than that talk to God about this yourself and ask him what it means.

    Phil: Hi Jenna…welcome to Theology Today……is it a bad thing to warn others of possible dangers? I spoke to God and he told me not to take part in the unfruitful works of darkness but to expose them (Ephesians 5:11) which is why I operate this site.

  83. I have one question Mr. Theologian, Have you been there , I challege you to go see ,experience the prescence of God If you know , satan does not heal the sick , he is the one who brought the diseases, your the one who needs to be warned . You are standing in Judgement when you judge this ,

    Phil: Hi Joshua…welcome to Theology Today. You want me to fly on a plane to lakeland from Greece….why when I can watch the lunacy on my TV courtesy of God TV for free? Rather silly don’t you think….and aren’t you “standing in judgement” for judging me? Seems like a double standard don’t you think….or quite possibly hypocrisy on your part?

  84. This is my prayer for those of you who would say negative things about Todd Bentley:
    “And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever — 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; (John 14:16NKJV).
    “Wait for the Promise of the Father, which, He said, you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:4, 5). May you be filled with the full baptism of the Holy Spirit as the disciples were in the upper room. Then you will understand. “And they ewre all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” (Acts 2:3).

    David knew not to touch the anointed of God and did not put his hand on Saul. Do not dare to touch Todd Bentley! Instead, follow the words spoken in Acts, Acts 5:38-39
    And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39 but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it — lest you even be found to fight against God.”
    NKJV

    Phil: Hello mustardseed…welcome to Theology Today….I have ZERO intention of physically harming Todd Bentley which is what that Scripture actually means but I have every intention of warning the sheep a wolf is in their midst….and we are commanded to do so in Ephesians 5:11….

    Your mention that we are to wait for the Holy Spirit is interesting considering this was a statement made by Jesus to His Disciples that was fufilled on the day of Pentecost…..all believers are filled with the same Spirit at the time of regeneration….have a look at these discussions we had a few months ago….

    https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/a-discussion-on-tongues/

    https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/a-discussion-on-the-baptism-of-the-holy-spirit/

  85. I was very concerned about your readiness to curse other Christians. I wonder whether you have every truly experienced the presence of GOD, in power?
    If you have, the you would know that as Humans covered by the covering of Jesus Christ then you know that where ever Holy Spirit is in power then there is also Demons and Mans involvement. It is possible that you might see some unusual things happening. (we will only be perfected when Jesus comes again)
    People are being healed,(proven) people have given their hearts to Jesus,(thousands) and All the prayers are prayed through Jesus Name. The most important thing of all is that the glory is being given to Jesus.

    I am not convinced you are correct, but I am convinced that your article does not uplift Jesus Christ in glory. I pray that people who read this website will ask the Father in Heaven for them selves.

    Blessings in Jesus Name

    Phil: How have I “cursed” other Christians?

  86. Well,

    I see some more Bentley worshipers have shown up. I also noticed how quick they were to “judge”. Of course, they are allowed to judge by experience…and what their “god/gods” have told them.

    There is a certainty on this matter – either their “god/gods” are right or the God of scripture… so, they need to chose today who they will follow – false prophets, OR the ONE & ONLY LIVING GOD who warned us about these false prophets and loved his children enough to leave us great detail on how to idenitify them, told us not to be deceived. and gave us instructions to “expose” them.

    Keep up the good work Phil….

  87. I just read (this morning) the responses to “Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 5” from May 18th to July 6, 2008. This has been so interesting to read both sides of the “debate” on whether it is a true move of God and whether Todd Bentley is a false prophet or not. I visited Lakeland back on May 1st and 2nd. I am in no way a follower of Todd but of God. Todd’s personality and style of preaching and teaching are not my favorites (he can be a bit loud and overwhelming), but this isn’t about personality conflicts… All I know is that my faith level is up, up, up from where it had been. I was getting discouraged waiting for the “greater things”. The whole premise of this outpouring is that God is empowering all believers to go out into the World and preach the Good News of the Kingdom. It is about the Kingdom of God being manifested here on Earth. I love Jesus and am growing more in love with him every day. I choose the “One and Only Living God”. I also believe that God is using Todd Bentley because he is willing. God will use those who are willing to submit and be transformed by the Power of God through Jesus Christ our Lord, Saviour, and Redeemer. Jesus has come to destroy the works of the devil and will Restore all Things… He is here working through His Spirit. Pentecost happens to those who allow God to change them from the inside out. We don’t want to be clean and shiny just on the outside. I am glad that the Lord is using “ordinary” people to preach the Kingdom. I am not a “sheeple” or a gullible person who is being fleeced by Todd. I don’t actually get to see the broadcasts very often. I personally believe that this outpouring is for real! I would be so happy to see this happen in my own “back yard” here in Southeastern Connecticut. I would love it if Jesus caused the Glory of God to be manifested in every church and in every person. Holy is the Lord God Almighty…the Maker of HEAVEN AND EARTH. I pray for a great Awakening for the sleeping church to come alive. I expect that you will pick apart every sentence of this as it is not agreeing with your perspective. I am so thrilled that God is releasing the Joy of the Lord, our strength… It doesn’t matter what I think anyway as I am only a fallible human. Jesus knows all things, and I do ask that He transform my mind if I am in error in my desire for His Kingdom to Come and His will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. 🙂
    Many Blessings and Much Love,
    Deborah

    Phil: Hi Deborah….welcome to Theology Today.

    Do you have any Scriptures that you can show us to validate Todd Bentley kicking someone in the stomach or “slaying” someone in the Spirit?

  88. I used to run in these circles to some degree. I believe the main problem is the lack of Biblical understanding of these “Bentley followers.” When it comes to theological matters, they don’t have much input. They can throw around verses here and there, but thats about it. I have several friends really wrapped up in this revival and I’ve seen my share.

    “And that’s one of the reasons I’m a Calvinist, a seven point Calvinist” – Dr. John Piper 🙂

    Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. Col 2:18-19 (ESV)

  89. re: catchers

    Their very existence proves that these people are not sure what their spirit will do to devotees. To even think that the Holy Spirit of God might damage the body of a sick person in the process of healing is insulting to His (and btw mine too) intelligence.

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