Just Google It??

A few weeks ago, a man by the name of Justin, who claims on his website to be speaking for God, visited here and made some derogatory statements about my blog and about me personally. He left a link to his site so I decided to check it out. From a general perusal, it became obvious that he was a baby Christian and a highly confused one at that. What we’ll do today is look at a couple of blogs from his site and then expose the root of Justin’s confusion…..  

Ever wondered what Jesus smelled like? Well wonder no more as Justin attempts to explain this to us here.  Justin added this nugget on the blog that explains it all. “Of course I did some Google searching to see if anyone else had experienced this before, or if they had an answer to this mystery. I didn’t have any luck but I did find this”:   

Normally, most mature Christians will examine the Scriptures for evidence that their experiences are actually from God. Not Justin. He prefers the word of Google over the Word of God! You see boys and girls; Justin believes that the study of hermeneutics places God in a box! Justin also believes that the Bible is an idol!  His most recent post shows the clear disregard Justin Jordan has for God’s Word…..unless it validates his experiences. Otherwise, he uses either Google or a site like www.reference.com to validate his experiences. There’s plenty of similar blogs on his site but his site, and confusion, has a root. Now I’d like to expose the root that seems to have birthed Justin’s confusion.  

Justin has in the past attended and worshipped at Living Waters Christian Center near Orlando Florida. This church believes that they are an “Apostolic Prophetic” ministry. In fact, their senior pastor, Michelle Duarte claims the following on her biography that can be seen here; 

“She is an Apostolic Prophetic Leader. Pastor Michelle has spent the last seven years as Senior Pastor of LWCCI. Her passion to bring the body into intimacy with God not only brings the body into extraordinary signs and wonders, but also into face to face encounters with our Heavenly Father….” 

Obviously, Michelle isn’t the French name for Michael. Pastor Michelle is not only a female pastor but claims to be a female apostle and prophet. I haven’t had a softball like this thrown to me in a long timeJ! 

Now, please forgive me but THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FEMALE APOSTLE’S OR FEMALE PASTOR’S. Maybe there is on Google but certainly NOT in the Word of God! I offer the following articles, grounded in the Word, that validate my beliefs; 

https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2007/05/25/women-in-church-leadership-biblical-or-blasphemy/ 

https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/do-genuine-apostles-exist-today/ 

The church site is fairly vague as to what this bunch actually believes but they make it clear that signs and wonders will follow their ministry. They also seem to be an experience led church that spends a great deal of time in worship and prayer. Notably absent is the trace of any bible studies or sermons delivered by Mrs. Duarte or her staff, which is mainly comprised of women. The one thing that’s abundantly clear is that God didn’t place Mrs. Duarte in church leadership. God’s Word is crystal clear on this but sadly she has convinced the sheep who worship in her building that her being in leadership is biblical. 

And Justin? He needs our prayers. He has an amazing testimony of the power of God to reach out and deliver one of His children out from Satan’s grasp. Sadly, his reluctance to embrace Scripture and proven interpretive techniques to validate his experiences negates this powerful testimony……at least for now. 

I pray that this changes. I pray that he finds someone to disciple him and not encourage his current confusion. I pray that he finds a ministry that understands the power of his testimony and teaches him how to use this testimony for the Glory of God. Finally I pray that he finds a church home that sharpens the butter knife he’s currently wielding into a sharp two edge sword that will force him to repent of the error he is currently in…….and keep him away from future errors.               

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50 thoughts on “Just Google It??

  1. Hi Phil,

    I live just about 40 miles north of Orlando. Who knows, maybe I’ll pay them a visit and give you a first hand report. 🙂 This isn’t the only one of this nature in the area. Like you pointed out, they are very vague on what they profess as anyone can tell by reading that particular website.

    Notice that they have a wonderful plan for your life with their intimate lifestyle teaching. I have seen what that means. It isn’t reading scripture, it’s reading self-help books, usually suggested by the local prophetess in whom God gives divine instruction on how to fix you. Yeah right….

    All this equates to is the “make love, not war” movement of the 60’s. What was the fruit of that movement? It produced the most self asorbed, self indulgent, greedy, materialistic generation this country has ever witnessed. Love is not love without discipline. The two are not mutually exclusive of each other.

    I would tell anyone who attends a church such as this one to run for the hills. It appears to me they have created nothing more than a religious spa. Pure humanism.

    Dorothy

  2. I’ve been to the site and it’s really a sad case. He got himself on the wrong train. I pray God enlightens him. And also strengthen you so that you can continue to warn the sheeple. We never can tell…

  3. Hello, Phil:

    Color me disordered, disquieted, distressed, and yes, even, disturbed!

    But I am the point where my Irish friend used to say, “Peter, you need to to have a fist fight for Jesus.”

    O.K., now color me deranged!

    When will this madness end?

    Alright, I’ll go to my room.

    Love you, Phil,
    Peter

  4. I tend to agree with Justin.

    I guess that means you can toss my name into the prayer box! Just refer to me as “Erdman,” and I’m sure God will know who you’re talking about.

  5. Erdman,

    What do you tend to agree with Justin about? Do you believe that hermenuetics are a bad thing? Do you believe the Bible is an idol?

    Do tell man….

    Your sarcasm is noted and I WILL pray for you.

  6. Thanks for the prayers, all sarcasm to the side.

    Justin said that the Bible can become an idol, not that it is an idol. I agree with this. From a Scriptural perspective this is the case, but more importantly, from my own experiences I have witnessed first hand the effect of elevating the paper words above the Living Word.

    Justin referred to (but did not cite) John chapter 5: “You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.”

    Like anything else, the religious establishment can always pervert truth and use it for its own purposes. Frankly, that’s what I think the primary use of the Bible is in America by establishment conservative and evangelical churches. Along with this, I might also suggest that Christian Apologetics is merely an institutional tool to help the so-called sheep feel safe: I’m right and everyone else is wrong and can go to hell.

  7. I am with Justin too. I studied both of your posts.

    I believe you have misunderstood what he has written like how Erdman explained.

    Sidharth

  8. Hello Sidharth,

    Welcome to Theology Today!

    Fair enough. Please enlighten me where I may have misunderstood Justin and what he has written.

    Do you believe in hermenuetics Sidharth or is there a better way to study God’s Word?

  9. I believe in letting Scripture interpreting Scripture. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I do not believe in studying some commentary by some theologian, because man’s interpretation can be aimed at supporting a denomination or their own personal beliefs.

    Sidharth

    Phil: Fair enough. So, when you write an article based on “Scripture interpreting Scripture” aren’t you doing the very same thing that a theologian has done when writing a commentary?

  10. Hi Phil,

    I live not very far from Justin. He is welcome to come see me, or we can meet and I’ll even treat him to a meal. While e-mail can be a good method of communication, I can do this “face to face” if he is willing.

    He is welcome to respond here if he would like to do that and then I’ll send him the appropriate information on how to reach me.

    Dorothy

  11. The Scriptures are prophetic, and that is they come from the mouth of God. No Scripture is subject to private interpretation, brother [1 Peter 1:21].

    Whenever I discuss topics from the Bible, I go strictly by the manual. If someone comes with something, I question it as to where it is in the Word of God. And if they offer some passage, I see if what is said is taken in context.

    Sorry, I won’t be able to come here and be part of the discussion through comments. I come from India 😉

    Anyway, I know what I believe in, and I have the experience. I know the kind of hatred and aversion people have to the biblical experience of the Spirit baptism because of the abuse in the Pentecostal and Charismatic circle. There is so much misuse and so much over-emphasis on things that people are even running away from the real thing.

    It’s sad we can’t discuss this via chat.

    Sidharth

    Phil: Sidharth. my remark about living in Greece was due to the fact that internet for me is 8euro per hour. Time differences as well as my time contraints are another issue.

    How would my readers be edified if we “discuss this via chat”. Why can’t you just place your teachings up so that we can all examine them and discuss them as a group? This is what I do and I see that you do as well so what’s really the problem Sidharth?

  12. I am just curious to know more about this church LWCCI. Have you been there yourself or anyone you know, or did you just review their website to come to this conculsion of what that ministry is teaching. I interested in knowing you postition on this. Can you help me.

  13. Hello Phil,
    This is Nameless again, curious to know if you received my last blog or not. I wanted to know if you or anyone you knew of had attended this church other than Justin. I know one of your followers Dorothy made note of being interested in possibly going to this church to see what goes on there, but was very vague as to whether she did or she didn’t attend. I’m highly interested in knowing your position on this. Help me to know exactly what may be wrong with a church or rather churches like this in our day and age. Please response.

    Phil: They have a female pastor and there is no such thing as a female pastor Nameless…..1Timothy 3 should clear that up for you…

  14. Hi Nameless,

    I have not made it to the church in Orlando. Right now I’m working “face to face” with a man who has been deemed an apostle in the “movement”. He knows me personally. He had gotten a call to go to Lakeland and I stopped him from going. Now I have him doing some research. He has contacts with several Churches along the eastern seaboard…and I’m pleased to report, I’m making good progress there. It is also notable that he is from the Hispanic community, so he communicates with them also.

    Right now, Lakeland is still on the top of my list of projects.

  15. Hi Phil,
    Did Christ not commission a complete body, a body of both male and female believers, in Him? Did Christ not commission all to spread the gospel of the Good News (Matt 28:18-20) that the world might be saved? What was Paul really speaking on in 1 Tim 2:9-10 when he describes the proper attire for a woman? Was he speaking generally when he said a woman should not adorn herself in that type of fashion or was he speaking in regard to the culture of women in that day?
    History shows us that it was the prostitutes of that age that wore the braided hair, expensive jewelry, and drew attention to themselves in their clothing. So with the conversions of so many of these women coming to Christ, Paul had to address with a sense of urgency the change of dressing amongst these new converts; that they might not be perceived as who they were but rather who they are as new creatures in Christ “2 Cor 5:17”.
    Now when Paul addresses the women of the church to learn quietly and submissively “1 Tim 2:11” it was because these women were eager to learn, but were disturbing his teachings at the time with consistent interruptions while he was speaking. So he directly rebukes them sternly and directly by telling them to be still and listen; but the misconception of this scripture and the one that follows is this: Paul, is very specific as to when he speaks from God or his theological opinions based on his studies of the Word and life experiences by the Word. Just like any other pastor or teacher who teaches the Word of God and relates it to their personal life experiences and understandings, Paul does the same here. However, does Paul not say in verse 12 himself “I do not let women teach men or have authority over them (NLT)”. Now with emphasis on the “I“, it would seem to be that Paul was giving his perspective and personal opinion on something he felt worked best by his life experience(s), but not what is necessarily the command of the LORD for the office of an overseer. (Phil: Are you saying that Paul wasn’t speaking for God here?) From that point, he begins to go into what would be the qualifications of an overseer. Paul is giving the specific details (as he explains in chapter 3) of what the qualifications of an Elder or Deacon should be; which I believe are direct commands from the LORD. He never states, however, that one of these qualifications as needing or having to be a man, because this is not a concern before the LORD but rather his own opinion as a man.(Phil: What does the word husband mean to you?) So referencing 1 Tim 2:12 again, we understand for what ever reason he has, he feels women should not be in authority over men. So, of course, he would not address a woman in a leadership position in chapter 3 due to it not being in agreement with his perception or part of his logic. Question…was Mary Magdalene and Mary not, in a sense, considered to be the first evangelists ever found in scripture, after seeing the angel and then seeing Jesus and being told to “Go tell the disciples and everybody else that Christ has risen from the dead as he said he would” Matt 28. Is that not considered a position of leadership over a man to evangelize? (It most certainly is).
    Now Proverbs 31:10-31 gives similar qualities or traits of what is to be found in an Elder or Deacon that can be found in a virtuous woman or a wife of noble character. So everything Paul describes in 1 Tim chapter 3 has to do with the testimony of a leader and not the gender of one; as we see that was only his opinion. For where do we find in the Bible that God will forbid a woman to be a leader or an elder of the church by His Word or His Word through the prophets of old? (No where). The only command we find for a woman to submit, is to her husband Gen 3:16; Eph 5:22-24,33; Col 3:18; and 1 Cor 11:13. For if this was a commandment to follow we would find it stated through out the bible with other things that do not honor our LORD and Savior. We also would find the consequences and repercussions that would follow for this disobedience to our Heavenly Father. The reason we don’t see this throughout the Word of God is because it was an opinion, perspective, and/or preference, but never fact or God’s command for an overseer.
    So my question to you Phil is this, for what is the purpose of some of these things you address and speak against? Are we not meant to work together to further the Great Commission of the Kingdom? Have we not been called to love our neighbor like we love ourselves? Have we not been given an ability for accountability to grow or divide the church also know as the body of Christ? These are conversations that I typically choose not to get involved in. Not for the fact of who is right or wrong but because it does not bring edification to the body of Christ. In this case, I chose to encourage you knowing that you have people who follow you and that you would be an example of righteousness to them. In my walk with the LORD, I’ve come to realize some incredible truths that I can’t deny. I’ll start with this. Our nation’s army is a body of many people of different beliefs, religions, understandings, morals, values, principals, and so many other differences. This army is full of people who may not agree with how the person next to them chooses to live their life. However, these individuals understand that beyond their differences as people, they work together for a greater cause and fight in unity for one reason. How much more should we, as believers, be a greater example of this. We should not let minute things like this, which have no attachment to our salvation or redemption in Christ, be a hindrance to us fulfilling our true purpose of furthering the Kingdom of God. If it has no connection to our eternal wellbeing, then let Christ work these things out in us as individuals accountable to Him. Our personal relationships with God should be in tune enough to hear Him correct us when we miss the mark. James 1:26-27 states this ”If you claim to be religious but don‘t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.(NLT)”. So inclusion, I will state this: Let us focus on the things that will bring the orphans and widows (the unsaved) from a world corruption into the knowledge and the light of Christ in all his splendor; To unite the body of Christ beyond doctrinal differences, unless it is completely contrary to His Word of Salvation and leads His children astray on a path to hell.

    With Sincere Love,
    Nameless (a bondservant of our LORD Jesus Christ)

    Phil: Nice tapdance Nameless but you can’t get around the very real fact that one of the requirements for the office of overseer or elder/deacon is they MUST be the husband of one wife…..it’s also very interesting how you feel some of Scripture is from the Lord and some are merely Pauls “theological opinions”…..it’s either all God’s Inspired Word or it isn’t.

  16. Nameless- what makes you think that the orphans and widows are the “unsaved” in James? Maybe they are just orphans and widows. Your female pastor or apostle or whatever will pass with the wind but the word of God (including Paul’s writtings) will endure as it has since 100AD. The church is full of deceived people who search the word not for the truth, but for justification of their desires. God did not give you this opinon from the word, you got it from someone who tickles your ears.

  17. Hi Phil,
    This will be my last time addressing any of the things that I’ve mentioned in my previous blog, in hopes that God will reveal Himself to you and your followers through His Word. I also pray that you can feel the love that He has and holds dearly for you, as it is also expressed throughout His Word.
    Now, I am a man who believes in boldness and confrontation, only if it means that my LORD will be glorified through it and His Kingdom will be propelled forward. I do not believe in exalting myself above any man in any attempt or sense that I might be glorified through it. That is why I will not continue to engage in these blogs after this point, so the message of truth that I bring may not and will not be placed upon me in any form of senseless debates. However, I’m hoping from this point forth you will see that my sole purpose in these writings is this: to encourage you in your gifting(s) and ministry call; to build the body of Christ and not to break it down or divide it; to show the love of Christ with boldness and not shy away from confrontation “Matt 18:15-16”; and that you might see I am not one who is easily persuaded but one who studies to show himself approved by Christ “2 Tim 2:15”.
    Below, I have addressed the five questions that were asked of me regarding my blog so that it may not seem that I ran without providing a Godly response to these concerns of yours.

    1: (Phil: Are you saying that Paul wasn’t speaking for God here?) Absolutely. He’s speaking for God in regards to the testimony and not the gender of an overseer. Please reference question 3.

    2: (Phil: What does the word husband mean to you?) A man who is married to a woman.

    3: (Phil: Is it not fact that one of the requirements for the office of an overseer or elder/deacon is they MUST be the Husband of one wife?) According to the testimony that Paul describes for an overseer, that goes without question; but if you read as I explained in my last blog, Paul was not in agreement with a woman having authority over a man. Please read carefully 1 Tim 2:12 where he states “I do not permit a woman to teach…”(I and not God). Throughout the books that Paul wrote in the New Testament, he is very specific as to the wisdom he shares from his life understandings as a believer in Christ and when he speaks according to the direct command of the LORD. So if this was a sin before the Father (which it‘s not) we would see or find in some location in the Word of God where he (or someone else) would state that a woman would not be able to inherit the gift of eternal life for committing this crime before the Father without repenting for it (we won‘t find it). That is how we understand that he is referring to the testimony of an overseer completely inspired by the Spirit and not the gender of one by his preference.

    4: (Phil: It’s also very interesting how you feel some of Scripture is from the Lord and some are merely Paul’s “theological opinions”…It’s either all God’s Inspired Word or it isn’t?) The Bible (including Paul writings) is one hundred percent inspired scripture by God and is His holy and true Word. Is it safe to assume that Jesus was Black because Rev 1:15 says “His feet were like polished bronze refined in a furnace…” or because “His hair was white like wool…” being thick like my hair “lol”(absolutely not); or as some of the Rastafarians believe, it’s okay to smoke marijuana because Rev 1:14 & 19:12 state “his eyes were like flames of fire or red like fire” and one of the many side effects to smoking marijuana are red eyes (of course not). There are plenty of examples we can refer to in the Bible that are meant to be dissected and cross referenced with other scriptures to see the truth of their meaning. Hence why we are supposed to study to show ourselves approved 2 Tim 2:15.

    5: (Boydmiller: What makes you think that the orphans and widows are the “unsaved” in James?) It’s very plain to see in this context that James is referring to unsaved by these simple clues. Christ called all to be part of His bride saved and unsaved; but only the saved have received this call due to them believing that the Son of Man rose from the dead and is alive today and forever (Hence the term wife and not widow). We as well, Jews and Gentiles, both saved and unsaved have been called to be the children of God, adopted in by the blood of the cross Eph 1:5; Gal 4:5; Rom 8:15& 23; Rom 9:4 (orphans are adopted); and let none be welcomed to the Father unless through the Son John 14:6-7. So when James states “care for the orphans and widows,” where else can we find these unsaved orphans and widows but in the world; where we would need to make sure that we would not become corrupted (as well) by the system of the world in our efforts to care for them.

    Here are some questions for you to ponder on since you did not respond to them in particular:

    1: Was Mary Magdalene and Mary not, in a sense, considered to be the first evangelists ever found in scripture, after seeing the angel and then seeing Jesus and being told to “Go tell the disciples and everybody else that Christ has risen from the dead as he said he would” Matt 28. Is that not considered a position of leadership over a man to evangelize?

    2: Why don’t we find these consequences and repercussions in His Word that would follow for this disobedience to our Heavenly Father (for female overseers); that he would chastise or discipline a female elder or deacon?

    3: My third and most important question to you is, why continue to divide the body of Christ with godless arguments that do nothing in bringing edification to the body of Christ?

    2 Tim 2:15-18 “Work hard that you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth. Avoid worthless, foolish talk that only leads to more godless behavior. This kind of talk spreads like cancer, as in the case of Hymenaeus and Philetus. They have left the path of truth, claiming that resurrection of the dead has already occurred; in this way, they have turned some people away from the faith.” And Eph 4:29 “Don’t use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them.”
    You’ve been given and chosen to take upon yourself a web ministry in spreading what is “truth”. Instead, this website is being used to criticize believers of the faith who are doing what they can to share the gospel, disciple sheep, and further the Kingdom of God. Use it to win lost souls for the LORD; and amongst your followers, plan strategic ways to help disciple the lost into the Kingdom of Heaven. Like I said before, if it endangers the salvation and the eternal wellbeing of His children’s souls than you have every right to warn people and the body of Christ of deceivers and wolves amongst the flock; Matt 18.6; Mark 9:42; Luke 17:2 all state this “But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. (NLT)”. However, if it doesn’t effect the salvation and the eternal wellbeing of an individual, let Christ do the convicting and the changing of the heart. That person should be in tune with God enough (especially if they hold a position of leadership) to see their folly by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. If we are believers in the Kingdom we should live by and be prime examples of 1 John 2:27 which states “But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true–it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.” So in conclusion, let the Holy Spirit convict and be the teacher of what may be a snare before the Father; and work on winning souls for him instead of playing into the trap of the enemy and making His body look like a divided joke. You never know what unbeliever(s) will come to your site to see and read what you (as a Christian) post, when beating up and accusing other Christians of falling short Rom 3:23. (Don’t we all fall short?) What kind of message does that send to unbelievers or those who just join the faith? A body divided against itself is guaranteed to fall and not survive, even Jesus Himself states this in Luke 11:17-23. So please Phil, in love, let us work together to further His great works.

    With Sincere Love,
    Nameless (a bondservant of our LORD Jesus Christ)

  18. Phil, you know, you think that what you’re doing is the right thing, but you know I’ve seen the power of god throught the ministry of Pastor Michelle, I can tell you that great things happens when she starts preaching. She’s a worthy woman of god. You’ll know them by their actions…

    Phil: Ok…convince me that she meets the requirements of either an overseer or elder as found in 1Timothy 3. That is what she claims to be now I would like you to show me how she can be the “husband” of one wife?

  19. I’ve actually been to this church before. And I agree with everything this post says. From what i can recall I don’t remember much scripture reading. I just remember being in a dim lit room with blasting gospel music while past michele would go to each person and place her hand on there chest. She would thing start chanting in tounge and speaking as if she had invoked the holy spirit herself. Then as she cast the demons out of her target they would fall lifeless onto the ground into a catatonic like state. This was some intense stuff. In all honesty this seemed like a cult. I progressed rapidly within this church and did a complete 180 to christ.. but it was their christ and not my relationship with him. I believe God saw that and removed me from their before it became fatal (which i was really close to the point of). I am glad that someone else knew about this and saw it for what it really was.

  20. And as for this power.. personally I’ve never witnessed this, other than by spiritual (brainwashing) means I’ve never seen it. Everything that she approached me with , was with stuff I had already told her. She had yet to tell me anything that I had kept secret from everyone.

    And I can hardly recall what happened in these church meetings. I remember the first time i attended… sitting on a chair as pastor michele was on her knees facing the congregation. Everyone else was on the ground laying down with their eyes closed. And I remember her looking at me. I remember that face. She said “Bow down to your true master, stop resisting” And I saw these chains form up around my legs that burnt and it pulled me down. It hurt so much.

    The other only thing i can vividly remember was the last day I attended. I remember the feeling of being possessed and wanted to get help. Pastor Michele was too busy with other people, i tried to get her help but… the higher ranked members prevented me too. I remember sitting against a window covering my eyes. The cross around my neck burned. Pastor Joe approached me and asked me what was wrong and i started crying. The gospel music in the background seemed to get louder and i started shaking my head like i had lost my mind. And I remember pastor michele telling all the members to leave the building and that her ministers stay. They all extended their hands towards me and started chanting in tounges. And they held me down. I started flailing around and was literally swinging around 5 big men that were all holding me down. Pastor michele had her hands floating on me, trying to trap the demon moving through my body. I remember blacking out and waking up on the ground and everyone was gone. They had all gone to lunch. Pastor Joe with a grin on his face pointing to the camera man and his camera saying “We got it, its all on here” . I attended the night evening and i don’t remember much from that. I remember… around midnight seeing Christina, a woman that attended who was 8 months pregnent, on the ground crying in pain. Pastor Michele said she was being beaten and that she was seeing and feeling what jesus went through hours before his crucification on the cross (is this biblical). Pastor Joe approached me and told me that i had to leave and he escorted me from the building.

    I had school the next day but decided to not to go because i felt weird. And the next day i was in my second period class and i felt some terribly wrong. I called my mother to pick me up from school and when i was in her car, i started blacking out and my vision started blurring. And I awoke 9 hours later at my house. My mother said i had gone into a catatonic state. She called the household of pastor michele. Michele was busy with someone else and so pastor joe came to the phone and refused to help. He said i was just doing this for attention and there was nothing wrong and to ignore it.

    So I stopped attending that church. Soon after I began getting accusations from them saying that I was practicing witchcraft in the church. That i was casting demons into other people in the church as i sat in the back. The correction to that is i always sat in the front , with my 100% attention on pastor michele. They said i was a wolf among sheep seeking to corrupt every single one of the. That God thought I was disgusting and that I was bad. But let me tell you something.. I did a complete 180 on my life for these people, for God when i went to this church. I stopped hanging out with my friends, I renounced my ties to homosexuality and to the occult which i had practiced with for many years as a child till that day i asked jesus christ into my heart. The hundreds of demons that i had conjured didn’t want to let me go. I started seeing things all the time, I’d be sick all the time, I would get intense pains in my chest, I would wake up with scars and bruises on my body, hearing voices, and having terrifying dreams. And the more i saught pastor michele for help, they never went away, it only got worse. And I got trapped in their supernatural world and saw it for what it truelly was. A beacon of all things wicked and ugly. I really really tried, i really did. I put my 100% body and soul into God into their cult and in the end they told me that i wasn’t good enough , not for them, not for God. And they cast me away into the fire. They say terrible things to and about me, yet did they try to save me? No they didn’t. This is the reason why Its hard for me to build another relationship with God.. I know its a stupid reason.. But its hurt my trust in man and their teachings of God. Ignorance isn’t so bliss.

    I remember the last time i truelly prayed. And that was a prayer to let go, to let go what they had done to me, to let go the hate of them abandoning me. And i started rubbing my body and my arms and black snakes began to fall off my body , dying as soon as the hit the ground. There were hundreds of them. And I pushed them in a pile before God. And I walked away. And I haven’t spoken to Him really since. I know He still loves me, I know hes been protecting me this whole time. He protected me and took me away from that church, he saved my life when I overdosed in attempt to commit suicide soon after, and so many other things that I’ve realized over this time away from them. But its trust… trusting people, trusting myself, and my worth to Him, that I lack. I’m so afraid of failing and going through what i had to go through because of the mistakes i made in my past. and I don’t want to half-ass (excuse my french) my dedication to God. I want to go 100% But I don’t know who or how to share it with anyone , even myself. These people have caused so much pain to so many people. They are dangerous and should be avoided. Anyone that says they want to pay a visit.. don’t. They will trap you. Their powers of manipulation of both the mind and spirits are powerful.

    I mean, why, when I prayed with them, when i prayed for salvation.. did i feel something was wrong while i was there? Why did things only get worse when I was around them? Was it the demons inside me? How can both the holy spirit and demons preoccupy my soul at the same time? Is that possible? Is that something i missed?

  21. Let me get this…
    You can’t believe miracles of God because she’s a woman????
    God can’t work with a woman???

    Phil: I never said that nor have I implied such a thing…..what I have stated….and what the Bible clearly stated is there is no such thing as a woman “pastor” or “apostle”….

  22. As for the LOKAIN, you well know what you are dable with. Out of your own mouth you said that you were reading about and performing witchcraft and spells. You have twisted it all. You, when exposed decided to leave and spread these lies.
    When you really chose to serve God, Jesus His Son and quite playing the games that you were playing back then, you will see the real power of God and find the healing you have been looking and deserve, that in Jesus Christ.
    Don’t go slamming anyone when the stuff you are messing with (book of the dead) is serious stuff.
    Again, You all should be careful

  23. I am so sorry to hear the interpertation of lokain. None of which he said happened as he said it. Pastor michelle has helped many people get set free drom Homosexuality and has spent may years working with recovering victims of the occult. There is no occult at LWCCINT. They love the Lord with all there heart and would willing give there life for Him. I pray that you undertand that this young man still and has always been in the occult and was sent to disrupt and dis credit the church. He never wanted to be free from the bondages. The pastors wenr out of there way to help him and his family. Just recently about 2 months or so age he wanted to return beacuse he never felt love like LWCCINT showed him. He is a very sad young man, I can say though that Pastor Michelle has always showen him kindness and love as so has Pastor Joe. You all have no idea how much of Father figure he is. He has the Love of Christ all the way. Please be wise to allow such terriable things to be posted. When you read the blog you can see that he is very confused. Pastor Michelle is a great and mighy women of God and loves her church family and all the people that attend the church and around the world. I pray that people would go and visit LWCCINT for themselves and see the truth. I also would say that Pastor Michelle is a great bible teacher and lives in the word. If you would even try imply that she does not you would be wrong.
    Please quit trying to bring down this women. You seem very confused yourself

    Phil: Hi. I would have to say that “pastor” doesn’t have a clue what the Bible has to say otherwise she wouldn’t be calling herself a pastor……..

  24. I attened the church at Lwccint also and God used her to blow my mind. She new everything about me that no body could;ve known but me and God. God used her to bring me back to him.

  25. Phil,
    I am not quite sure your comment addressed to Nameless as regards the inspiration of Scripture is quite on target.

    I do not believe he is suggesting that any part of Scripture may be disregarded as being the inspiration of a man.I believe the real distinction is between what is central to the Bible`s message,and those things that are not.

    I have recently had a spirited discussion on the issue of what is doctrinal teaching and what is not,on another blog.I certainly will return to that discussion soon.

    You may for example wish to take another look at Paul`s contrasting statements in 1Cor 7 – `I not the Lord`,as contrasted with `The Lord not I`. Perhaps someone would wish to comment on this.

    Take care.

  26. Phil,
    scripture and verse for no woman pastor.
    1 Tim 3…..paul wasnt married,we dont have evidence that timothy was.
    Moreover,the issue with women was their husbands.
    Could u pls elaborate

    Phil: The requirements for elder/overseer are clearly stated in 1Timothy 3……from the ESV….

    1Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
    1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
    1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
    1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
    1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?
    1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
    1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

    Paul wasn’t a “pastor”….he was an Apostle. Paul was an evangelist that planted churches. The above requirements are for elder/overseer….

  27. Instead of judging you should take a trip to LWCCI. I attend that church myself and that is one of the best decisions that I have ever made. Pastor Michelle has a very close and personal relationship with the Lord…and leads us in the truth, she dares to go where other pastors would never go! She has a pure heart always longing to please the Lord in all she does and take care of her spiritual children as God would have always intended for a shepherd to be! I personally invite you to attend our church before you make judgments about someone that you don’t even know. The bible even states “Touch Not Mine Anointed And Do My Prophet No Harm.” Watch what comes from your mind, thoughts, and mouth…the mouth has the power of life and death….and judging others may satisfy you on this earth but if you don’t come to be repentive and ask forgiveness concerning this issue you have with my pastor, i feel bad when you have to face the Lord concerning this issue…Judge not lest you be judged……

    Phil: Ah, “judge not” and “touch not mine anointed” in the same paragraph. Thanks for the invite but I think I’ll take a pass….

  28. I never wanted to be free of my bondages? I did a complete 180 when i took that step in my life. You knew nothing about me or where i came from. I renounced all my sins and practices to jesus. Burned and destroyed all sinful things, and replaced my ungodly friends with living waters. Do you not remember that i tried to spend every moment that i could with you all? Do you not remember that when you told me what i wore if it was ungodly or what i said that was ungodly, i without hesistence threw away? Why is it, that you patrick, Approach me threatening me with violence? As a child of a pastor of this church, i thought you would have known better. To correct you I said i practiced the occult before I went to this church and I had since stop them. I remember reading a blog one of your members wrote saying you ran into me at a park and my friends saying we were practicing witchcraft. What the hell is with that? How is sitting around a fountain at a park with friends practicing witchcraft? We weren’t sitting around in circle chanting, we werent casting spells, we weren’t blaspheming the name of God. So what witchcraft is that? You abandoned me and you replace it with lies and falsehoods. You only hear what is down the grape vine and its sad.

    Religion is fear, faith is love. What love have you shown me since then? None. You have abandoned me completely and left me to be devoured by the wolves. Even now it is only hatred and pity that speaks from your lips. None better than myself. I am happy that God saw what was going on and removed me from your damaging hands. That i see as a blessing in itself.

    What exactly was i exposed for? The only reason why I said the things i said (though i love to hear what you remember of it) was because i was hurt. When i asked for help you denied me. Then you spread lies about me. For example again. How can your father say that I cast demons on members while i attended church while sitting in the back, when correction, I sat in the front everyday with my every focus on the ministers? How is that even possible whenever i needed help i would go to you or the other members of the church? How is it that i could do that for so long and not have anyone say anything about it? Warn me of the path i was on? Or stop me? Why is it that your ministers never revealed to me what i had not already told them myself before the services? Why is it that you take pride in the recording of my exorcism of those demons as if i was some tool for your “I told you so’s”. These are the questions i can never get answered, only replied with pity and your hostile defenses. I see no scripture, I see words.

    You played on my ignorance and tossed me aside when i wasn’t fulfilling your requirements of godly perfection, whatever that may be. You fail to see that when i went to that church , it was the real me who you saw. The person you see now is a monster of your own creations. The person you see now only distorts your memories of me and my efforts towards Christ. you just put aside and put the blame elsewhere.

    I really believe, deep down in my heart. It is God who is in control and not the devil. I believe that it was God that removed me, that placed those situations in my life, that removed me from your ministry. I know he saw me really trying and you weren’t equipped. I find it funny, if you remember what Gods verse spoke out most to me. Psalm 91. Oh do i know I live by that everyday, whether i realize it or not. There’s been so many situations in my life that I know God must have been watching over me or some very bad things if not worse, death. When the voices screamed in my head “Kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself”, I went to the medicine cabinate and downed every pill I found in there. But I know it to be truth that God gave me the strength to rise from the daze and the weakness and get help. After that it seemed like… as if everything became better. I got the help I needed and a greater appreciation for life. For I knew, that even though you had forsaken me, God did not. And I thank him. Now if thats not a praiseworthy testiment then i dont know what else to tell you. My relationship with God and myself is a relationship He and I can have, no one else. You say all these things about me but I know they are just lies and they don’t affect me. I may not be the perfect christian, but who really is a perfect christian? Id like to meet him/her. I may not look or seem like the most righteous to the random eyes but I never deny Chris. When I am asked if I believe in God, I say yes. Even to this day I defend his Word. I speak to those who have been forsaken by their religions and show them that God loves, jesus loves. You can never truelly depend on man because he is as constant as the moon. But God never changes, God never takes it out of context, God doesn’t need to twist his words, God never forsakes. I know I am not the first to speak out against you. I am just another of your broken dolls tossed aside into the fire.

    “A thousand may fall at your side,
    ten thousand at your right hand,
    but it will not come near you. ” Psalm 91:7

    But I will agree with you on this. Pastor Michele does have purpose with God. Your ministry has a purpose with God. However, things aren’t so pretty and black and white as how you want them to be. And I do thank Living Waters but Ron the most. Ron you were the only one who approached me to help me open my heart to Jesus. As others were casting the demons away and forcing me to bow down to a power I did not know, you pulled me aside and had me saved. I was reborn through God through your hands. You’ve always been there for me and I know you’d still be if I asked for your help. You would not shun me as the others have.

    As for you others. Go head, take pity on me. speak terrors on my name, my life, my family, my choices. Believe that the devil has more control over me and everything than God who was the one that spat Lucifer to the earth. Speak more words of Hate and not love. Speak more of violence and destruction than solution and resolution. Speak of vengeance and not of forgiveness. Continue to show only the consequences and the fears and the context misunderstandings that drives so many of our youth away from God. Speak lies and gossip and not the real truth. Continue leading sheep down your religious path as you are drunken and consumed within yourselves lead them. Continue to be not humble but arrogant with your achievements. Continue to speak your pastors words, a mans words, and not of scripture. For this is between you and God. This is your purpose for Him, not mine.

    After I post this I am not going to return here, because everything I said above will only be repeated by your members as its been clearly shown already. And as for you patrick. Remember the Word is a double edged sword. And as righteous as you claim to be and the christian your mother wants you to be, heed your own words. No that’s not a threat. I’m not going to fight you. But if you verbally threaten or assault me in any manner again, I will have you arrested.

    Other than that, leave me alone. If I am everything you say I am doesn’t the bible say not to associate with me? So don’t.

    Go pray about it 🙂

  29. Phil,
    are u admiting a woman can be an apostle?

    Phil: Absolutely Not……

    Inother words the qualifications of an elder/bishop are not applicable to all ministries.
    Phil: The qualifications for elder/bishop/overseer are clearly stated and meant for the local church bodies…..

    Paul wasnt a pastor?scripture and verse.
    Phil: 1Timothy 2: 5-8

    Brother phil….in the qualifications of a deacon….same 1 tim 3 gives husband of one wife.
    However,Rom 16:1 phebe a lady is a deacon.
    Phil: The same word is used in 16:1 as is 1Timothy 3:12….but I’m not sure whether she was a deacon or just a servant….but in regards to the whole council of God’s Word I don’t think she was someone in authority, but Paul sure did trust her….

    Dont u think the issue here is testimony not gender?

    Phil: I think the issue is what the Bible says Tosin….and the Bible simply doesn’t support women in roles of church leadership nor as spiritual heads/authority over men…..

  30. Phil,
    can a woman handle,say discipleship..Mathhew28:18-19.
    Since this includes teaching. Phil: Yes. They are commanded to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5)…
    Again,paul advises that its better to remain single to serve the lord 1 Cor 7:32.
    Again,the originals of 1Tim 3;2….says one woman-man.Testimony not gender or the qualification of marriage.
    Can a woman be an evangelist ,prophet and teacher?
    Phil: Those aren’t leadership positions Tosin

    Again timothy…history has it that he wasnt married when the letter was written..yet he was a pastor.

    Phil: But he still was a man…show me one instance where a woman was either a overseer/elder?

    Arriving tooo quickly at this conclusion looks more personal than scriptural.
    O/Testament-we had woman judge,prophetess even Luke-anna daughter of phanuel.
    Phil: See Judges 17:6……

    Are u not generalising with the marriage issue…or ALL WOMEN,MUST BE IN SUBJECTION TO ALL MEN..unbeliever,believer.
    At work…can a woman teach a man,say in a workshop?
    Phil: We’re talking about church leadership Tosin….what does the world have to do with church leadership?

    This will go on endlessly except we properly situate within marriage 1 cor 11,Eph 5:25-30.Col 3,1Tim 2.
    thanks

    Phil: Actually it won’t go on and on unless you can show me where in the NT a woman was an overseer/elder we really have nothing further to discuss on the leadership issue…..

  31. First of all Phil if you have anything to say, save it for the end, let whatever anyone has to write be without your comments until the end, thank you.

    Phil: First of all Joe this is MY blog and this is how I do things…thank you.

    Not here to bash you phil, Nor am I here to defend Pastor Michelle who is my wife, She is a mighty woman of God who truly seeks the will and direction of God and needs not my defending, but have a question:

    If we look at 1Tim 3, your whole reasoning is how can a woman be a “husband of one wife”, Fine, lets say we accept that.

    But if we take that whole same reasoning, we must apply it to ALL the scriptures

    Lets look at Rev. 19:7
    Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give Him Glory: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife has made herself ready.
    8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

    By the same reasoning and applying it to this scripture The Lamb (Jesus) is coming for his wife, His bride.

    So He is only coming for the women and us men are stuck here on earth doomed. Yes!, you can not say no or anything else, this is the same reasoning applied as in 1Tim 3.

    Phil: Nope…wrong again. If you take the time to look at this posting you will see that 1Timothy 3 isn’t the only Scriptures I use to validate my beliefs…
    https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2007/05/25/women-in-church-leadership-biblical-or-blasphemy/

    We can not pick-and-chose scriptures, nor pick-and-chose how we look at them, we must have an deeper understanding of what the whole of the meaning, which include the time, culture in which it was written.

    At the time in which 1Tim3 was written must be looked at:
    1) Women were not allowed to read.
    2) Women were look down upon, treated almost as cattle.
    3) Women were not educated.
    4) Women walked behind men and were treated almost as servant
    5) Women did not hold titles of authority, unless she was a queen, even title
    only.

    So because of this cultural thinking (not Gods) women did not have a roll in ministry, and 1Tim 3 was written to give direction to men at that time, that is who was only in leadership at that time.
    No where does it clearly say NO WOMEN in ministry. It clearly and only says “husband of one wife”, again it was common pratice to have more than one wife back then.

    Phil: Women in “ministry”…yes. Women in leadership positions such as overseer/elder no…..you are correct there were men with multiple wives in that day which is why Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit made it a qualification that men who would be overseers/elders would have only one wife….

    And since the Marriage is symbolic of Christ and the Bride(the church), we can look at it this way, Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
    Have only one wife, Having only one God. No where in any of the scripture does it say you woman have no place in ministry.

    Phil: A place in “ministry” yes….Titus 2:3-5 covers the role women play in ministry…a VITAL role I must say….

    One last thing, during that culture the women walk behind the men, but the women walked with Jesus. He taught both the men and the women, this speaks volumes, He treated them as equal. He included the women in His Ministry.

    Phil: I treat women as equals as well but the Bible is clear about their roles in ministry…..they are NOT to be overseers/elders Joe.

    You can say what you will, and that is fine. But if you are going to take one scripture (1Tim3) and apply a reasoning to it, then you must apply the same reasoning to every other one.

    Phil: Read the link I provided Joe….

    Pray all are blessed, and all seek the Lord with all their hearts.
    You can add whatever comments you would like now Phil, if you couldn’t help yourself, well thats OK, i forgive you, and truly pray the best for you. God Bless, PJ

    Phil: Thanks for the advice Joe…..and I will be praying for you as well

  32. Justin, Congraulations on your new wife to be, it is awesome to see how far God has brought you out of, and to think that God used A Women to do that, WOW! Keep Seeking and Doing the Lords work, lets remember not to get wrapped up in these things unless we hear from God to do so. Pray you are doing well and God Bless.
    Open invite to all to come by LWCCI and truely see that our Heart is to serve the Lord and show the Love of Christ!

  33. Phil,
    again all refernces to these limitations refer to the marriage scenario
    1 Cor 11:2-16…head of every woman is the man,the proceeding verses referred to husband
    1 Cor 14-let them ask their husbands
    1Tim 2-they shall be saved through child bearing.
    Definitely the woman who rfuses to marry will have no man(husband) to submit to Eph 5:25 case.
    Making sweeping statements like no woman will be error!
    1 Cor 7:34-the unmarried cares about the things of the lord…married to please her husband.
    Thus all the responsibilities in Titus 2:4-5 will NOT apply.
    Over to you

    Phil: You still haven’t shown me ONE instance in the NT where a woman was either a overseer/elder…..why is that?

  34. I am tired of this phil, I GOD clearly did not want woman as overseer/elder He would have CLEAR stated something like this: …AND YOU WOMAN SHALL NOT BE OVERSEER OR ELDERS IN MY HOUSE…

    Throught out scriptures you can read clearly when God commands that we should not do sould something, and is this case He has not.

    1Tim3 is directed to men in that position because were the only ones to hold and position back than as to cluture as I stated before. We Jesus was still alive, if God did not want woman as overseers or elders in church, He never would have allowed the woman to walk with Him and even more He NEVER would have let them in His inner circle. He never spoke of any such nonsence.

    I really wish phil you would take this energy an apply it to building the KINGDOM, but all you keep doing is feeding the same religous mind set that perscuted Jesus…

    Tosin, continue doing the Lords work, more so in this present time than ever. May God bless you and direct and open the doors that He has for you, and close ever other on that is not His, and pray that someday we may meet. We will continue to keep you and your country lifted up in Jesus name!

    Phil: And you still haven’t shown me ONE instance in Scripture where a woman in the NT was either an overseer/elder….why is that?

  35. When women are allowed to hold positions of leadership in the church, then the acceptance of homosexuals as an alternate lifestyle is just a step away. As a matter of fact this progression is the way to reach that goal. Do you notice the “what’s sex got to do with it agruement” that keeps coming?

  36. Phil,
    are u submitting the following issues
    1 ”Women” cant hold leadership roles in church ,church here refers to “local church”

    2.Leadership here doesnt include Office of Apostle,prophet,evangelist and teacher.Eph 4:11,1Cor 12:28
    3The issue of men being head of women,is only for the church,whereas the same woman can head other organisations involving men.This,the scriptures are either silent on or doesnt apply.1Cor 11..1Tim 2
    4.Women can be evangelists ,prophets,teachers and apostles,exhorters etc except eldership/pastoring..Eph 4,Rom12:4-8
    I need you submission on this to move forward with our discussion
    BoydMiller
    Its unfortunate u are resorting to blackmail,no one spoke of gays until u!
    Pls lets keep this open for me,phil,Pj..all christains to…2 tim 2;15…lets be dilligent to shew us,approved unto God…RIGHTLY dividing the Word of Truth.

    Phil: Boyd is 100% correct….feminist theology has opened the doors for gays and lesbians to “pastor” churches

    Phil: I have asked you and others to show me ONE instance where a woman was an overseer/elder in the NT and until you do this discussion is finished…..
    No persons intended..no scores to settle with..paula,michelle..Khulman,joyce…The Scriptures only

    Thanks

    Phil: Yes….the Scripture only….and until you show me the Scripture where a woman was an elder/overseer in the NT our discussion is finished….

  37. The less we make individuals the target of our doctrines the better we would be truthfull..Honest,walk in love and integrity.
    Phil is learning.(his articles really show)..I am learning,every one is..so no personal,pet doctrines that cant be reviewed.

  38. PJ,
    You said this:

    “I(f) GOD clearly did not want woman as overseer/elder He would have CLEAR stated something like this: …AND YOU WOMAN SHALL NOT BE OVERSEER OR ELDERS IN MY HOUSE…”

    He did.

    “Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.”–1 Timothy 2:11-15.

    If you had read the Bible just once, you’d know that.

    Phil Perkins

  39. Phil,
    am not arguing on the women eldership issue.
    So,lets move to whether women can be evangelists,prophets,teachers etc with the exception of eldership/pastoring.
    Phil: I will address this in a posting probably this weekend

    Again,does it apply in the secular world?
    Phil: I don’t believe that it does

    Lesbians?…pls lets keep the discussion less myopic

    Phil: The elder/overseer IS the issue here Tosin….or at least one of them…..and you still haven’t answered my question…..why is that?

  40. Brother Phil,
    I have the following comments on women in Church leadership:

    1 As to Phil Perkins,he quotes 1 Timothy 2:12,but conveniently fails to note the `I` there.Paul is saying clearly that by his own persuasion,women should not teach or exercise authority over men.
    He may wish to refer also to chapter 7 of 1 Cor,where Paul clearly distinguishes his own personal opinions or prejudices`I not the Lord`,from direct heavenly commandments`The Lord not I`.Mr Perkins should please read these passages again,and see if he still has the same opinion.

    2 As to Boydmiller`s assertion on homosexuality,the scriptural passages on the ministry of women certainly is not of a type with homos.The Biblical passages that touch on homosexuality are clear,absolute and direct.See for example Lev 20:13.This is not so with the extant matter of female Pastors.

    3 Phil,you base your argument on two planks- that Scripture forbids it,and that we have no examples of women Pastors.

    The second one is the easier argument to deal with.We have no examples of female NT Pastors simply because in the social climate of the time it would strictly have been taboo to have women and men mix freely,not to talk of women preaching or teaching.You may wish to refer to Mr Freeman`s excellent work Manners and customs of the Bible,for example.

    You may wish to refer to the book of Judges for example on what happened to a a man who entered a woman`s tent uninvited!In the book of Acts Paul felt compelled to have his traveling half-Jewish companion ceremonially cleansed`because of the Jews`.These traditions faded away slowly- and Paul was not unaware that in the new covenant salvation was not by works,but by faith in the risen Christ.

    4 You refer to the passage that requires leaders to be husbands of one wife.But then a careful reading of the Bible will quickly confirm that it has a `male` bias.Instructions to both males and females are usually couched in the masculine,and understood to include the feminine.And then coming from a man who was steeped in the tradition of an exclusive male priesthood(OT) perhaps this is not surprising.

    5 Overall,it seems to me that the matter of female Pastors,like that of women covering hair during worship,has been,is,and will always be a controversial matter.Perhaps it is one of those matters about which Christians should act according to their persuasions?

    Perhaps,we should emphasize matters that unite us,avoiding matters that are bound to remain controversial in the Body of Christ.

  41. Right on Phil Perkins.

    Discussions like this can be tiring especially when the other party don’t study scriptures. They are quick to argue, judge, condemn, without doing a thorough study themselves. Pretty sad!

  42. Naomi,
    the one who isnt studying is thee.
    Pls, dont do patronage.
    Since u are female.What ministry are u into.
    Atleast lest know how u are “obeying” scripture.
    I have put down scripture,but the “PHILS” are not adressing it.
    U point out whats wrong in these submissions without calling for help…and lets see.NO NAME CALLING

  43. Hello Phil,
    Greetings and God bless my fellow brother in Christ. I haven’t had the full opportunity to read all your postings, but I have gone through your postings in regards to Living Waters Christian Center International and Pastor Michelle and Joe Duarte. I’ve found these postings to be quite interesting. Now, my opinions and truths that I look to share on this matter are not at all bias, as I will express. I may not stand in complete agreement with some of your expressed theology and/or reasoning, however, I do believe and stand for truth (and in some cases we are entitled to our own biblical opinion in regards to the interpretations of some biblical writings pertaining to some issues; and I’m sure you would agree) and warning those of potential danger and harm.
    As for myself, I’ve stumbled upon your posting and felt a need to provide some deeper insight to your view on this ministry. I used to be under the covering of LWCCINT and was highly involved in the church for a few years, attending every service possible and offering myself completely. I am ashamed to even called this place a church -let alone a ministry- due to how I’ve come to understand their ministerial code of conduct. However, I do appreciate my time spent there because I’ve come to learn a lot of good things and bad things with them. It’s unfortunate and sad to say mostly bad things regarding what not to do as a minister or an established ministry. This ministry functions under deep manipulation inviting all who become members to this church to eventually cut off any outside influences they have. For example friends, family, visiting other churches will all eventually cease by their advise and its advised by them to spend more time with the church and church members only. One thing that is highly advised, is not communicating with anyone who has already left the church because they might taint your view on the ministry and deceive you to believe that the church is an occult and it’s members are ungodly. If that doesn’t align with the definition of witchcraft then I don’t know what does, this is major manipulation and control. Also, the pastors have a way of justifying any and everything that has to with their short-comings or their family’s short-comings. It’s taught in the church that it is “unbiblical to bring concern, warning, correction, or even rebuke to the Head pastor”. They conceal issues from members of the church and the parents of minors that attend the church; that would be illegal in some sense not addressing to the parents and/or the proper authorities, or just flat out wrong in other cases. If you are not a valuable asset to this ministry then you are treated with no respect, torn down, discouraged, and told you’re disobedient all by the prophetic word of the lord (no caps because I don’t know in which god or lord they prophesy by). This ministry is also solely motivated by prophetic words and thus sayeth the lord messages. In my time spent there again more than a few years, I can count on probably both hands the number of times Pastor Michelle or Pastor Joe preached messages based on scripture. Instead they preach testimonies and try to apply scripture to it as much as possible or share some very outlandish visions of the supernatural or “testimonies” of miracles ( which very few are true to the point of validation). The messages that have been preached that were biblically sound were mostly taken from other sources like Elijah’s list, video study guides, or other ministers’ sermons that she revised in her words but are not her studies; while giving no credit to those sources. To provide sound doctrine when needed they use third party sources i.e. the teachings of John Bever video guides or sources and ministers that are similar. Another concern I have with this “ministry” is the amount of focus they put into “the gifts of god”. I believe in gifts that the Father has given us for propelling the kingdom forward and the winning of souls; gifts of music, abilities to draw crowds, effective task management skills, etc. Not everyone is good at these thing and some do it much better than others. At LWCCINT your gifts are taken advantage of being prostituted and used, making you feel as if you’re a slave or being pimp by them. The gift you have, are only use for their selfish gain to promote their vision while being made to believe it’s for god.
    There is tons of truth that I can share about this so called ministry/church. My commission is to warn those who may consider going to, do attend, or might be active members in the church, to be aware, very aware of these people. These people are playing with fire and leading the LORD’s sheep down a cold and lonely path. They have made promises and use the voice of the LORD without fear and trembling, and this concerns me. They speak of this vision for a sportsplex named Zion to restore family and develop youth. Yet the pastoral family is in shambles and youth are indirectly encouraged to sin and keep sinning. A very large part of their youth have turned away from the church due to being hurt by this church; and the ministry itself has undergone several series of declines due to members leaving and the church not growing. Why would a GOD of righteousness provide a facility for this to continue on a grand scale if it hasn’t been addressed now. All that being said, just think, I’m not even touching and addressing on the SERIOUS points either.
    1. Financial Responsibility (Delegation and proper distribution of tithes and offering)
    2. Debt (Due to lack of prioritization and continual missions and outreach trips being taken without clearing debts of the ones prior)
    3. Sin (The level of things that go on with both awareness and unawareness not being addressed accordingly) 4. Constant Justification (The claims of living a no compromise life for the LORD, but compromising when fit, to meet selfish needs and desires or needs for the church that would be wrong)
    Hope this sheds some light on some things for you. Thanks for your time.
    With love always
    AVOT aka A Voice of Truth.

    • Wow your pretty screwed up…obviously you left on bad terms…but I am sure that in your time of ministry at LWCC that you experienced wonderful things! Its sad that when people decide that “GOD TOLD THEM TO LEAVE” a ministry that they turn around and bash the same pastors that they were under for years and years and all of a sudden have all this negative stuff to say about them. What was the point in being in a ministry for a few years if you were so much against the pastors, now that makes no sense! I await the day that you yourself come to the pastors and ask forgiveness! Watch what you say for the very words you speak you will be judged. Its just horrible to read all these negative things first of all from people who have never personally met pastor michelle and secondly for those who attended the church and left out of pure disobedience, not hearing from the Lord but convincing themselves that the Lord did tell them to leave. God will deal with ALL of you…your words are falling to the ground. I advise you to stop wasting time speaking about people and read the word of God..and maybe you’ll actually gain truth rather than twisting it!

      • Pure truth, I find your statments to lack pure truth and understanding. I would also encourage you to redo both the Honor and Bait of Satan series taught by John Bevere, due to your “unquestionable blind faithfulness” to your so called “pastors”. Now once again I’m not someone who just left that church. But I’m someone with a lot of truth and understanding to what was going on behind the scenes of that church. Which if you want more clarity I have no problems display and explainning in pure detail all the ungodly foolishness that happen there. Also re-read all scriptures that deal with obedience, submission, and rebuke then ask your self if that lines up with your lifestyle or are you just believing the words spoken by man(ie your pastors) and not realigning that back up with the Word of GOD. There is a big difference between loyalty and blind loyalty, submission and blind submission. One stands for truth and the other is being manipulated by man for someones hidden agenda. I hope these words open your eyes and if not then we can talk anytime anywhere and I’ll give you the pure truth. I know how I am in CHRIST and because of that I don’t need to hide behind a hidden idenity, trust me.

        With Love and Truth
        AVOT aka A Voice of Truth.

  44. GOD BLESS YOU ALL…….. there is nothing wrong with a woman apostle you really need to study the bible but all i have to say is GOD BLESS

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