Jesus was mistaken yet still is God?

Sometimes I don’t know what to think about the Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) industry. I don’t want to paint the entire industry with a broad brush but lately it’s been difficult for me not to think that a good portion of the industry hasn’t the foggiest idea what the Good Book actually says.

Case in point; there is a “worship band” named Gungor with a lead singer named Michael Gunger who’s floating around the idea that Jesus may have been wrong about Adam and Noah.  Specifically he said the following;

“And even if He was wrong, even if He did believe that Noah was a historical person, or Adam was a historical person, and ended up being wrong, I don’t understand how that even would deny the divinity of Christ. The whole idea of the divinity of Christ being fully human and fully God, that God lowered Himself to become a human being with a human brain, in a human culture with human language and human needs and human limitations,”

Jesus Christ, the God Man, the Son of God, one third of the Trinity, was wrong about Adam and Noah? Here’s one thing Mr. Gunger missed when or even if he’s ever even read the Good Book;

(John 1:1-3)  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus is eternally divine and to believe otherwise is a serious mistake to make. To even insinuate that somehow God made a mistake or got His facts wrong denies what the Good Book says about Him.

I can’t believe a Christian would even entertain such a thought let alone say something like this publicly but Gunger also believes in “theistic evolution” as opposed to biblical creation so this really shouldn’t surprise anyone.

The strange bit, at least for me, was claiming that Jesus somehow being wrong wouldn’t be denying his deity. The Good Book has something to say about this as well

(Isaiah 40:28)  Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

(Psalms 18:30)  This God—his way is perfect; the word of the LORD proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

(Job 12:7-10)  “But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.

(Num 23:19)  God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

The Numbers quotation sort of brings this thing home doesn’t it? I can see how standing alone one could run with this and get into trouble because it does say “God is not a man” but when you look a little deeper and add the following to it alongside the John 1:1 reference it all becomes crystal clear.

(Philippians 2:5-11)  Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I probably just confused you didn’t I? I’ll try and tie this up real nice and put a bow on it for you.

The answer is real simple. Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. He was with God in the beginning and is the creator of all things now and forever. To even insinuate that Jesus was mistaken about the very thing He created denies what the Good Book says about Him, the Father and the Spirit of God. Anyone teaching such a thing is teaching against the eternal divinity of Christ and that dear friend is blasphemy.

Furthermore; just because Jesus took the form of a man and became man for our sins doesn’t mean he stopped being God. It only means He was being obedient to the Father, even unto death. Denying that denies the entire plan of Salvation which is actually denying Christianity.

Geesh. Mr. Gunger is a mess and I hate to say it but he isn’t alone. The CCM is littered with misinformed people spouting off about things they should just stay silent about. Especially something as grievous an error as what Mr. Gunger has committed.

Finally, today is Wednesday and this is the day we remember Pastor Saeed Abedini by changing our Facebook profile picture to something like the one below. Abedini is the Pastor falsely imprisoned in Iran for being a Christian. If you are unable to do this please pray for him and his family.

 

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Being drawn or dragged?

Now that I’m back in America I’ve been visiting lots of different services looking for that church home the Good Book talks about. It’s definitely been an adventure and while I’m enjoying it to some degree the inconsistency makes me shake my head.

For example; I attended one gathering where the lingo was all about how everything under the sun was “God brought you here” or “God made sure that would happen” but at the end of the service God supposedly needs you to cooperate with him in order to save you for eternity.

Let that one resonate for a minute.

God is in control of everything and everyone in the universe except your salvation. That’s what they seem to be saying. I’ve heard that quite a bit over the past month.

I’m not going to disparage anyone here but sometimes I wonder if the Gideon’s left these preachers the Good Book because it clearly says the following;

 

(Joh 6:44)  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Now on its own and in modern English (this is the ESV from E-Sword.net) that word “draws” could lead folks to believe in cooperation between man and God. It’s an easy mistake to make and one I’ve made before. Now what we need to do in order to figure this thing out is once again go to the Good Book and re-examine that word “draws”.

This is from E-Sword.net and Strongs dictionary.

ἑλκύω, ἕλκω

helkuō    helkō

hel-koo’-o, hel’-ko

Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): – draw. Compare G1667.

Total KJV occurrences: 8

There you have it and it took all of about five minutes to do and it was free compliments of www.e-sword.net.

I don’t know about you but being dragged doesn’t sound like all that much fun and a far cry from “I let God into my life”.

“I cooperated with God” does sound better but I hate to say it but that isn’t the reality of what the Good Book is saying is it? My own personal experience, i.e. my testimony supports the dragging because I know for sure I wasn’t cooperating. Your mileage may vary.

I’m not all that certain I would want to follow, worship or obey anyone that needs me to cooperate with them on something as important as my eternal destiny but to each their own I guess.

There’s obviously much more to this and we’ll get into all that in due time.

Have a great day everyone!

Understanding New Testament Eschatology Part 5: The Olivet Discourse

Tonight Mrs. Dee Dee Warren concludes her series on eschatology with a brief overview of Matthew 24.

To listen to the program from the site please click the link provided below. To save this program to your portable listening device please right click the link below and select “save as”.

https://phillyflash.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/understanding-new-testament-eschatology-part-5-matthew-24.mp3

Mrs. Warrens commentary on Matthew 24 can be read in its entirety at the link below;

http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html

The archives for the entire series can be found at the link below;

https://phillyflash.wordpress.com/understanding-new-testament-eschatology-audio-series-archives/

Thoughts About The Justice Conference

Tonight Pastor Michael Newnham and I discuss what he experienced by attending The Justice Conference 2012.

To listen to the program from the site please click the link provided below. To save this program to your portable listening device please right click the link below and select “save as”.

https://phillyflash.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/thoughts-about-the-justice-conference.mp3

Understanding New Testament Eschatology Part 4: The Timing Statements

Tonight Mrs. Dee Dee Warren continues her series on Understanding New Testament Eschatology with a look at some easily misunderstood timing statements that lead some to believe that the Great Tribulation is a future event .

To listen to the program from the site please click the link provided below. To save this program to your portable listening device please right click the link below and select “save as”.

http://phillyflash.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/understanding-new-testament-eschatology-part-4-timing-statements.mp3

Part 1 of this series is here, part 2 is here and part 3 can be found here.

The Essentials of Christianity and the Creeds

This week Pastor Michael Newnham and I answer some mail from the listening audience and the look at how the essentials of Christianity can be found in the Apostles and Nicene Creeds.

To listen to the program from the site please click the link provided below. To save this program to your portable listening device please right click the link below and select “save as”.

http://phillyflash.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/the-essentials-of-christianity-and-the-creeds.mp3

Understanding New Testament Eschatology Part 2: Why the First Century Jews Were Expecting a Messiah

Mrs. Dee Dee Warren continues her series Understanding New Testament Eschatology by examining Daniel Chapter 2…..

To listen to the program from the site please click the link provided below. To save this program to your portable listening device please right click the link below and select “save as”.

http://phillyflash.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/intro-to-nt-eschatology-part-2.mp3