The Dangerous Theological Errors of Hyper Preterism Part 1

 

I’d like to thank the longtime readers for their patience as we attempted to address the heresy of Full or Hyper Preterism. I say “attempted” because discussion usually turned into heated personal rhetoric that had little or nothing to do with the various topics presented. Today I would like to offer you a preview before we REALLY begin to expose this dangerous theological error.

 

If you noticed many involved in this dangerous theological error ask for exegeses. Please keep in mind those adhering to this heresy have REJECTED 2000 years of scholarly exegeses. That’s the arrogance behind the belief system. For the past 2000 years everyone got it wrong INCLUDING the Apostles except of course for those within the FP movement.

 

How can anyone adhering to Sola Scriptura claim the following was fulfilled in AD70?

 

  1. Satan bound for a 1000 years (Revelation 20:1-3)

  2. The Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15)

  3. The New Heaven and New Earth (Revelation 21:1-8)

 

Oh, they’ll come in here and try. They’ll major in the minors and toss in some Scriptural smokescreens in an attempt to confuse you. Don’t be fooled by these smokescreens. Without the smokescreens they don’t have a case. Oh, they are convincing but here’s what they can’t get around and CLEARLY can’t prove.

 

Acts 1:9-11 NKJV

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.

 

Full Preterists will come in here and try to convince us that Jesus returned in AD70 and it was a “spiritual” return but the text CLEARLY says something to the contrary. Jesus departed in the flesh so it’s only obvious to 99% of Christianity for over 1967 years that He will return in the flesh. That is what “in like manner” means.

 

Another Full Preterist belief is that the resurrection of the dead

occurred in AD70.

 

1Thessalonians 4:13-18 NKJV

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

The apostle John was certainly alive in AD70 yet why wasn’t he “caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air”? Why wasn’t John always with the Lord rather then be boiled in oil and imprisoned? Full Preterists won’t be able to answer this but will still stick to their “all was fulfilled in AD70 heresy.

 

You know what the largest smokescreen Full Preterists will offer? They’ll tell you that if all wasn’t fulfilled in AD70 that Jesus lied. Can you believe the arrogance of that statement?

 

Matthew 24:36-44 NKJV

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

 

Jesus didn’t even know when He was going to return so how could He have lied if He didn’t return in AD70? That’s the smokescreen to pull at your hearts when all else fails. Don’t be fooled by that either brethren.

 

In 2Timothy Chapter 2 verses 14-19 Paul warns Timothy that two rogues were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. Paul said these were profane and idle babbling and Timothy was to shun such things. Full Preterists tell us that the resurrection has already occurred. I suggest to you brethren what Paul suggested to Timothy. Shun these profane and idle babbling as they lead to ungodliness.

 

Over the past month or so I’ve been contacted by dozens of former adherers to full preterism who’ve described in great detail their personal journeys upon leaving this heretical belief system. Some have turned to Gnosticism. Some have become atheists while some have found a safe haven in a bible believing church. In each case their faith was overthrown just as Paul told Timothy those believing the resurrection had already passed would experience. This truly is a destructive and faith destroying heresy.

 

This is only a preview. You may Scripturally argue each point that has been presented here if you like however ad hominems will not be tolerated and your comment will be deleted.

 

 

 

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

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25 thoughts on “The Dangerous Theological Errors of Hyper Preterism Part 1

  1. Hi Phil,

    This is a great post! You bring out some crucial points. Anyone who says that Christ returned in A.D. 70 is a resident of Kookville. Of course, we know the mentality arises from a superficial reading of God’s word, and poor scholarship. As you say, if 2,000 years of Christian teachers got it wrong, how can these ragammufin soldiers expect to get it right?

    I look forward to the rest of your series, and will be following comments closely, as I’m sure you’ll get a barrage. BTW, I’ve got plenty of sandbags, if you need ‘em ;)

    Brian

  2. Yes, it will be a great series — now an “outsider” of the hyperpreterist movement detailing this stuff should silence the constant…“But, but, but Dorothy, Todd, Brian, Roderick, Dee Dee are just being ‘mean’ & ‘personal’ & don’t like ‘preterISTS'” junk we constantly hear.

    The hyperpreterists’ main agitator has already told Phil to “have a nice eternity” so they may not respond at all. Phil may be relegated to “he who shall remain nameless” status which is what the hyperpreterists do when someone stops playing their little pretext/proof-text games & starts zeroing in on hyperpreterism’s premises & conclusions.

    But Phil keep this series coming. We don’t write for the hardened hyperpreterists, we write for the ones who were duped like us (former hypers) & for people on the fence.

  3. Kookville?

    How about defining “return” as several partial preterist would argue that, yes, Jesus did come like He promised in judgment against Jerusalem in 70 AD. Those “kooks” would include Lorraine Boettner, John Calvin, Ken Gentry, Keith Mathison, Martin Luther, St Augustine, Greg Bahnsen, RC Sproul, Hank Hannegraaf, Jonathan edwards and a host a giants before and after!

    This would include even those verses after verse 35 in the Olivet Discourse…Where were they “taken” Lord? – Where the vultures circle, there the corpses lie…nothing to do with a Resurrection or Second Coming!

  4. Hi Joel,

    Thanks for stopping by.

    Well, character IS an essential to Christianity wouldn’t you agree? Michael Bennett sends out an email depicting Dee Dee Warren the “whore of Babylon” as a “joke”. What do you think about that Joel?

    BTW: The unrepentent Michael has decided to take me to task. Have a look what an open sinner has to say about my opening statement;

    http://preterism.ning.com/profiles/blogs/regarding-phil-naessens-post

    Geesh…..

    Phil

  5. Michael plays the old shell game of substituting solo scriptura for sola scriptura. And cherry-picks like a Mormon. Always has.

    Now here is the obligatory disclaimer for the hyperpreterists who will howl at every analogy. Note, I did not say Michael WAS a Mormon, I had said he shared ONE characteristic with the tactics of Mormons.

    And Joel with the whole “eschatology is a non-essential.” There is a context to that statement. How about someone who had no eschatology? Ahhh, then you will see the point. Ponder for a while why the writers of a Christological Creed (Athanasian Creed) included so many eschatological statements in it. Once again, the obligatory explanation for the hyperpreterist hyperliteralists. I am not asking if you agree with the AC but rather what would motivate them to include the very things you deny in a creed that was a Christological Creed.

    That is because the things you deny are not mere eschatology, they are essential to Christology. Wake up.

    And tsk tsk you guys. Boss Samuel demanded that you not post here because he is under the delusion that sites only get “traffic” because of hyperpreterist “roadkill.” The arrogance of that statement knows no bounds. Further it is highly carnal. Personally unless a site needs to be supported by commercial advertisers, any “Christian” motivation should never be “numbers.” I know, I have fallen into that trap myself a few years ago, and now I don’t track a thing. I am sure Planet Preterist gets a thousandfold more page views that Samuel’s little group as does the Preterist Archive.

  6. Dang, I forgot to add. It is really pathetic that Jason is over there accusing you of lying basically when he won’t even say a peep about Michael’s long-time harassment. That email was just the latest of years of such behaviour by Michael, though definitely the worse. I suppose Jason has never heard of anything called “changing one’s mind.” And there is nothing that is as motivating to change one’s mind as a group of people who don’t have the fortitude to open condemn such a base action by one of their own. Not one of them mentioned that Phil left that site and re-evaluated his position after his post there was deleted with all of them attempting to sweep things under the rug.

    Oh btw Jason, Samuel once said it was wrong to characterize everyone who disagrees strongly with you as “insane.” You did that once again. Has Samuel changed his mind or gotten some medical degree that we don’t know about?

    Everyone else, Mark Driscoll on the Mars Hill podcast delivered a powerful sermon on his 11/5/08 podcast about how the Victorian politeness to wolves is completely unbiblical. He calls false teachers wolves, and said, “feed the sheep and shoot the wolves.” Of course I am sure some hyperpreterist literalist will now say that I said hyperpreterists should be literally shot, and of course I mean that Mark told all pastors that they should take the congregations to Denny’s for a meal.

  7. Low5point,

    As I’ve stated several times in the past, the views espoused by Gentry, DeMar, James Jordan, et. al, can be quite as mischievous as those of Hyper-Preterism. For obviously reasons, I am strongl against viewing A.D. 70 as an eschatological crisis. Nothing of an eschatological nature happened in A.D. 70. It was purely Dispensational.

    There is a difference, because the Dispensations are arranged against the backdrop of the ages. These Dispensations may be altered according to Divine principles of administration, while the age remains the same. Of course, “this age” and the “age to come” will converge in the last 7 years of Israel’s history. However, this convegence did not take place in the first century, for reasons which I cannot get into now.

    Anyhow, once we recognize the distinction between Dispensational and eschatological fulfillment, the matter will become clear that there was no “coming” of Christ– whether in type or actuality– in A.D. 70.

    Brian

  8. Hi All,

    You know what I LOVED? Mark Chiacchira calling me a “fraud” yet whining and pouting because someone called him a heretic. That makes him a heretic and a hypocrite. I think I’ll refer to him now as “double h”.

    Dizzle,

    Yes. I left SGP directly after receiving an email from Mike Bennett in which he claimed the email he sent out was a “joke”. The title of his email? “My Rebuke LOL”. That was the last straw. I don’t want anything to do with someone like that nor even have my name associated with someone like that. It’s that simple. It had NOTHING to do with ANYONE else.

    Phil

  9. Phil,

    You insist it doesn’t have to do with anyone else, yet you are using the actions of one or a few to lambast the DOCTRINE of PreterISM. It is quite a fallacy. Rod did the same thing by trying to equate the liberal ideas of SOME in the preterist community with the BELIEFS of full preterism. It is a formal fallacy to do such a thing.

    So now Mark is a “heretic and a hypocrite”, and you’re going to laughingly call him “double h”? How is this “funny”? How is this a Christian attitude to take? Do all you guys use the same ad hom playbook? You all are starting to sound like clones of each other, and it’s quite sad.

    Your little “issues” with preterism that you posted were laughable, considering most of what you wrote and “argued” against is believed by even PARTIAL preterists (ie, NH/NE, Christ knowing the generation in which He’d come, etc.)…not to mention they were HYPOCRITICAL and full of fallacies (ad homs, ironically, and well-poisoning).

    You say you want “exegeSIS”, and then turn around and say our exegesis is “private” and overturns “2000 years of church history blah blah blah”. Wow! Nice “out” on that one! They told Luther the same thing..I’m sure you know that, being “reformed” and all (that label has no meaning anymore considering your stance on “2000 years of history”). The irony is deafening.

    And now you’re calling Sam out because He didn’t cite where the original post came from? Are you kidding me? As if we didn’t KNOW? Are you just looking for things to gripe about now?? (funny that you call Sam out on that, but don’t see the plank in your own eye for posting in PUBLIC what you did about Mike’s email…)

    This stuff is quite pathetic. I’m younger than most of you all, and yet see you guys acting like 3rd graders in this “debate”. But alas, God will be glorified.

    And you know…Mark WAS right. You WERE a fraud. You came onto SGP acting as if we were all one in Christ, and acting as though you would debate with us respectfully. Now you’re in cahoots with these heresy-hunters who will go so far as to even LIE about people in order to make their points? These people who cling to creeds more than sola scriptura!!?? These people who make a lifestyle out of logical fallacies!! And why?? Because of something Mike did?? Can we say FALLACIOUS REASONING?? No, I guess we can’t, since that term has no meaning for those living in inconsistency-land.

    This is all just juvenile…

    Phil: I wasn’t a fraud Jordan. I always argued respectfully with any of you. Stop attributing things to me that aren’t true. This series has been planned for month’s now. I have PUBLICLY stated that Full Preterism is heresy LONG before I ever heard of any of you. Don’t believe me? Here’s a link from 2008. Read the last paragraph Jordan;

    http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/03/12/marcus-lamb-compromises-again/

    My post on SGP that was quickly removed was a test to see the reaction when open sin is addressed and I saw how easily dismissed it was. Mike Bennett is an UNREPENTENT sinner and as such I want nothing more to do with him or a group that allows such without as much as a public rebuke for PUBLIC sin. You shouldn’t either.

    I don’t place the creeds above Scripture nor do ANY of the contributers on this site. To say such would be a LIE. Stop lying Jordan.

  10. Jordan,

    When a regenerated person is faced with their sin – there is always a tremendous feeling of remorse. It is a pain that can only find relief in repentance and restoration in forgiveness. When I see no remorse, I have a very grave concern for that person.

    The most unloving and hateful thing that you can do to another is to allow them to wallow in sin, be defending it, excusing it, etc. Those who do that are participating in the sin. Discipline is a very necessary part of a Christian’s life. To make light of sin shows a low regard for doing what’s right in the eyes of God. It also shows they don’t grasp the consequences of sin.

    It’s not OK….

  11. Phil said – My post on SGP that was quickly removed was a test to see the reaction when open sin is addressed and I saw how easily dismissed it was]

    You are such a HYPOCRITE Phil!

    How quickly did you delete my observations of you regarding my previous comment yesterday Phil??? You have no credibility Phil!!

    You can delete this one now to you foolish hypocrite!!!

    Phil: Thanks and tell Double H I said hello! Oh, and since everyone seems to be a stickler for spelling its TWO!

  12. Actually what has happened is that as the hyperpreterists showed more & more who they really are, Phil formed a clearer picture. Phil, like most Christians as they first encounter hyperpreterists, want to be gracious & extend the benefit of the doubt that hyperpreterists may merely be “brothers” of a non-essential different eschatology. But as hyperpreterists continue speaking & acting out, they become their own refuters. Their character clearly impacts their theology & their theology impacts their character. They behave much like the 1 Cor 5-6 people who thought they were being “generous” for allowing sin to remain active among them. This ISN’T “just a few” who make the others look bad — this is the standard among hyperpreterism & it becomes very apparent very quickly. This is another reason many hyperpreterist sites try to keep parts of their sites out of public view…just like a cult would do — their public & private communications doesn’t line up & that becomes obvious as you actually SOURCE LINK things.

    The Bible says, you will know Christians by their fruits & their love for one another. People who coddle sin are NOT “loving” — they are selfish in helping to foster destruction of those they claim to “love”…all to help protect the “movement”.

    Phil has been more than receptive & open to allowing hyperpreterists to present themselves as legitimate Christians (even to the point of at times annoying even us who have known these hyperpreterists a bit longer), but it didn’t take long for them to behave like a cult that will lie, seek to pull people away into “private conservations” out of the light of truth & examination, & to protect sin among them, all the while attacking the PERSONS of others…including now Phil.

    Phil: Thanks Rod. I owe you an apology. You tried to warn me and as a brother rebuked me both publicly and privately and I didn’t listen to you. You NEVER once attacked anyone when you rebuked me, you warned me and I didn’t listen. Please forgive me for not listening and for being angry with you when you were only telling me the truth. I’m sorry Rod.

  13. Pardon me, but I will speak momentarilly as a fool.

    Jesus returned in AD70, but not the way He said He would. He lied.

    The great white throne judgement is past, and all not written in the book of life have been cast in the lake of fire. And the redeemed stepped into eternal life back then.

    So everyone who claims to have been saved since AD70 are not the redeemed. They are not the elect. Pretenders all. Deceived as a matter of fact. Even the HPs themselves. They cannot be saved; for they bear not immortality.

    Sin was destroyed; yet men still sin till today.

    The sons of God were supposedly manifested in AD70 or thereabout; yet no-one can point to anyone of them distinctly today. All we see are mortal men giving birth, sinning, and dying.

    The whole of creation is still in the grip of the corruption that God imposed on it, the same corruption that Christ’s return was to do away with.

    The gospel is built on the hope of Christ’s return. But since He returned in AD70, what has been preached since then cannot save anyone. Too late.

    As such, no-one has truly been saved since AD70. We’ve been wasting our time. Like mere men, we will die. But that doesn’t make sense. Death was abolished in AD70 or thereabout – actually cast into the lake of fire. At least, the Book says so.

    What is this that still kills men – Death Reloaded? Ah, the devil snuck one up on God. Christ’s sacrifice must have missed something.

    If the hyper-preterist position is not a delusion; what is?

  14. Well, at least Jordan, Gentry and DeMar are in good company…

    You can semantically deny eschtaological terminology but Jesus didn’t seem to suffer from the same problem and didn’t divide his “coming” dispensationally. He made very clear, simple statements.

    Matthew 16, Matthew 24, Matthew 26 and Rev 1 all reveal a “coming” of some sort. Just because there is arbitrary refusal to determine what makes eschatological “coming” doesn’t change the immediacy of that “coming” and the guaranteed (by Jesus Himself) timing of it (coming). You can claim it possesses no “eschatological” significance, but just saying so doesn’t make it so. The blinding goggles of Dispensational distortions doesn’t relieve you of the duty of dealing with the actual texts and their actual words.

    There’s no value in simply stating “I don’t think it happened” and simply throw it into an arbitrary category. This is not an issue of Full Preterism (of which I am not and would join in the critique of which I do in my own blog), it’s an issue of determining what Jesus meant when He said the things He did. To gloss over with the Dispensational mantra of “the last seven years” assumption – unproven – and simply deny it based on not wanting to deal directly with the actual written words is utterly dissatisfying.

    I don’t know you or the rest of the people commenting. They probably haven’t read my blog – maybe they have. I join in the critique of Hyper-Preterism, but of the things listed in your post originally …

    1. Satan Bound – has been believed for as long as the church has been in existence. Hyper’s may claim his release took place as well, but then again, I would join the criticism there. But the binding itself has been taught and believed by every Amill and most Postmill since day one!

    2. White Throne Judgment – Not sure who outside of Hypers believe this other than those that teach that judgment follows death immediately, but Jesus was clear the judgment of the prince of the world was a present reality – John 12

    3. New Heaven and Earth – Postmills have always argued this was their “golden age” and not the eternal state based on the presence of work, judgment and death.

    To claim the Hypers heretical based on the completion of these things is something we agree on, but to jump and claim any fulfillment of these things in any way as being a rejection of sola is ridiculous…but then again I would gladly be thrown into the pile of heretics with Calvin, Luther, Augustine, Sproul, Gentry, DeMar, Edwards, the Puritans, Hodge, Machen, Warfield …

    Phil: This was just an opening statement. I and some others will clearly demonstrate how Hyper-Preterists have taken what most of those you mentioned above have taught and basically put those beliefs on steroids. Stick around. This is only the beginning. I’ll present the rest of my opening statement on friday and then we will REALLY begin shredding to pieces this dangerous theological error.

  15. Phil said: Thanks and tell Double H I said hello! Oh, and since everyone seems to be a stickler for spelling its TWO!

    Phil, I don’t know Double H, as for the spelling? Yes, I see my typo error.. it should say too, not TWO as you as you say! If you are going to correct someones spelling, at least understand the written word as it applies!

    Phil: I was just teasing you Tyler. One point of this opening statement was how you folks major in the minors. Exegesis was purposely spelled wrong because I knew one of you would bring that up. Look around this site son. I know how to spell. Also for you know it alls out there that think I don’t know my Greek you better think again. In case you and the rest of the folks over at SGP didn’t know I live in Greece. I speak Greek. I teach at a Greek Seminary IN GREEK. Just thought you should know that.

  16. No forgiveness needed Phil, you did nothing wrong. I just need to be more patient to allow hyperpreterism to show itself. I get a little ahead of things knowing some of these players personally. I look forward to the continuance of your series.

    Hey Yomi, you comments here are hilariously TRUE. What hyperpreterism claims is true, then it is possible to conclude that EVERYTHING was completed in AD70, including God’s entire plan. Jesus could be seen as coming for His “elect” & now after AD70 humanity is on its own, after all, the way the text reads it looks like everything was reaching a culmination point. Hyperpreterists have nothing to offer after AD70 except speculation — which is how they got to this erroneous doctrine in the first place — speculating & claiming 2000 years of Christianity has been wrong.

  17. Jordan, take a logic course or something. Mike’s email was not private, he sent it to multiple people including Roderick whom he knew would show it to me. He may have tried to send it to me, but his email is on automatic bounce due to his past behaviour. Second, Phil sourced it.

    Samuel has been to seminary and has written papers. If you copy and paste someone’s work, you properly source it. It wasn’t just “fair use” snippets, it was the whole thing. Don’t like it? Take it up with the government. Samuel is breaking the law. But hey that’s small potatoes after a coward sends an email calling another man’s wife a whore, and when rebuked says LOL. You guys ought to be mortified. It might interest you to know that Samuel also outright lied in a recent email. I would tell you the details, but seeing how you are just fine with Michael’s libel, I doubt you care.

    You guys will do anything to justify yourselves. Go ask your wives if Mike’s email was appropriate. It is funny, everyone who opposes hyperpreterism are all crazy, bitter, egotistical, weak…. I find that odd. But I do see a common denominator. Do you? Everyone else does. Samuel was sweet as pie to me until I publicly gored his ox on an “alleged rebuttal” to a piece I wrote that was so full of fallacies I had to break out the toes to count them.

    PS: you are disobeying Samuel who predicted the demise of civilization if it were not for hyperpreterist roadkill

  18. Hello Phil,

    Well done!

    Your remarks to me privately prior to publishing this article were and are 100% on the mark.

    Phil stated 3 things to me that would happen as a result of this article.

    1). SGP would personally throw him (Phil) under the bus and become flesh and blood warriors

    2). They would major in the minors and point out wrongly spelled words like “exegeses” in an attempt to discredit what was only an opening statement.

    3). They would circle the wagons and make him (Phil) the new enemy

    Sadly all of this has happened. I would laugh if it wasn’t so sad.

    I’ve been around Full Preterism for a long long time and I’ve never witnessed as many rattled and completely shook members as I have now. They bit on each and every piece of bait you threw at them never realizing they were actually making your case FOR you. If I hadn’t seen this with my own two eyeballs I would never have believed it.

    Never in this article did you attack a person or name ANY individual yet in their responses they attacked you PERSONALLY calling you a “liar” hypocrite” “fraud”. Those that have eyes can see this clearly.

    You can now count four of us as “insiders” that will assist you when you are ready to make your final move. I truly believe that when this time comes there will certainly be more then four of us taking a stand with you!

    God Bless,

    SGP

  19. OK, I’m all ears… can someone tell me just what the problem is with SGP or Sam Frost? There appears to be some obsession here with a few and it’s a bit disturbing! Can someone at least clarify the problem?

    Phil: I don’t have a problem with Sam Frost Tyler. I like Sam. What saddened me most was that Sam, a leader of a supposedly Christian group, a man I still regard as a BROTHER in Christ, didn’t publicly denounce a very PUBLIC sin committed by one of his own. His refusal, for whatever reason, is the ONLY reason I removed myself from their list. Simple as that Tyler.

  20. Another comment to this thread.

    What I witnessed in the majority – there are “some” exceptions – is that sin is not understood – at all.

    To understand grace you must understand sin.

    Sam said he likes to error on the side of grace, but we see how easily he partners with sin.

    If you understand grace, it is impossible to make light of sin. You can and must deal with it Biblically.

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