Should the Pastor get Paid?

Yesterday I received an email from someone asking the following question;

“Should the Pastor of a church be paid for his or her services”?

Since there are so many of you who currently are Pastors or former Pastor’s I thought I’d let you help to answer my readers question.

Here was my answer…….

Hi,

Thanks for the inquiry….

The Apostle Paul stated in 1Corinthians 9 that he didn’t want to abuse his power by taking money (v18) and quite a few people out there believe that this should be the standard for all preachers, pastors evangelists and such but I don’t see that Paul is condemning the paying of pastors. This is only my short answer. I have quite a few pastors who read my blog so I’ll pose this question to them as well.

So here we go….I look forward to a very lively discussion…..

About these ads

89 thoughts on “Should the Pastor get Paid?

  1. “Not seeking my own profit but the profit of many that they might be saved”- 1 Corinthians 10:33. “We are not, AS SO MANY, peddling the word of God”- 2 Corinthians 2:17. By peddling that means adulterating for gain. Jesus said that you cannot serve Him and mammon (Matthew 6:24). “Men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth suppose that godliness is a means of gain. FROM SUCH WITHDRAW YOURSELF”- 1 Timothy 6:5. Yourself and not your money.

  2. I’m not a pastor. Just an ordinary church member. I don’t mind pastors getting paid. However, Paul was an apostle. I’m not sure if there is an example in scripture of a pastor – a member of a local gathering residing continually in that location – getting paid or not. I’m not sure there is even an example of a pastor carrying out all the roles that a modern church expects of its pastor.

    Perhaps it depends upon what the church expects of their pastor. If the church expects a full time person devoted to their gathering’s needs, then it only seems fair to pay them. However, if they don’t want to pay a pastor, perhaps they should all be contributing to the running of their gathering, rather than expecting one person to perform in that capacity for everyone else.

    Scripture does teach that we should not take advantage of one another and also that the worker is entitled to his pay. To expect to have a full time pastor yet not to provide an income for them would seem to be taking advantage of that person, unless they have some other means of support and are happy to rely on that instead. On the other hand, for a pastor to demand disproportionately high remuneration would seem to throw the office into disrepute.

    • PAUL WAS ALSO A PREACHER…
      1 Timothy 2:7 nkj
      for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle–I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying–a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
      Read 1 Timothy 2 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
      2 Timothy 1:11 nkj
      to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
      Read 2 Timothy 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
      2 Peter 2:5 nkj
      and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

  3. Hi There,
    I was a full time chaplain and today i am a lay minister mainly due to financial constraints.
    A true minister that do counselling,visitation,teaching courses,funerals,weddings not even mentioning running a church is a very buzy person, but he also have a family and children that go to college and bills have to be paid.
    I have chosen the way of working and paying may way through life but people that go 100% full time achieve so much more for the kingdom as they do not have to waste hours of serving a wordly master.The problem is that too many people try and be pastors which ar not called to that ministry and therefore that church do not gro and then they end up praching money and putting people in bondage to give.Such do more harm than good.
    A full time min ister can spend more time preparing good messages and feeding people better where the lay person rushes between church work and home.
    One of my friends is just giving up the ministry as he cannot pay the bills and is pastoring a small church.
    Also a lay minister have to use people to do much of the ministry for him which is good as he does not become a one man icon.
    My experiece say
    If God provides be full time but do not make a church a crutch

    • A pastor is a gift and not an office to be held. We are all called to be priests in God’s Kingdom. Therefore, we are all able to do the work of a pastor. But since the churches have these duties assigned to a pastor, it is making the believers useless and they do not exercise their gifts as God’s children. A paid pastor cannot care for the sheep as he should. Jesus said do not worry about what you should eat or wear. Do what you need to support yourself and family. Preach for free because you recieved it for free. Do it because you love Jesus Christ more than anything in this world!

      • Hi Emily,

        I think you should re-read 1Timothy 3:1-7. Not only is pastor (shepherd, overseer) an office but there are also qualifications that not everyone can meet. While its true we are “priests” that shouldn’t be confused with church leadership. If what you are saying were true then a saved 13 year old could be a pastor.

        We should preach for free but there aren’t any scriptural mandates stating that we shouldn’t pay our leaders and I believe all that has been covered in this thread.

        Thanks,

        Phil

  4. I have no problem with pastors being paid and I think they should be compensated for their service. Let’s take Osteen for instant he pastors but my understanding is that he’s not being paid for it but his books deal is were his money comes from.

    I can understand that concept if you have no other way of taking care of your family and you are the pastor by all means get paid. In other words as a lay person who believe in the tithes and given yes they should be paid.

    • check out—- http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=88

      Should Pastors Be Salaried?
      A Closer Look At A Popular Tradition

      Historically, pastors during the first-century period were normally not paid on a full-time basis. Although they may have periodically received gifts of food, clothing, and even some monetary assistance at times, there is no historical evidence to suggest that such pastors were given a full-time salary sufficient to meet their financial needs and obligations. This is confirmed by the following considerations:

    • Osteen is not pastor, but a mere motivational speaker and tool of satan for the purpose of making people feel like God (a genie in a bottle) is here to bless them. Please do not refer to him as a “preacher”.

      • You do greatly err not knowing the scriptures. Some of Jesus’s disciples saw a man casting out devils in Jesus name and they repuked him because “he followeth us not”. Jesus in turn rebuked them and said there is no man that can do a miracle in my name, les he be with me, leave him alone for he is with us. You like so many have a ‘religious’ spirit and think you are doing the work of God but are actually fighting against (the work of) God. The folks that troubled Jesus the most were the religious folk who thought they knew the scriptures but could not descern what was of the Spirit of God. There are many functioning parts of the body of Christ and not all of them are required to preach brim-stone and fire! If you make it to heaven, you will see brother Joel Osteen there!

  5. As a bi-vocational Pastor, I work to take care on my family. Pastoring is a honor to me. 1 Corinthians 9:14 teach if you Preach the Gospel you should live from the Gospel. I work so I can Preach what GOD want me to and not man. So yes a pastor should to paid. How much is up to the Church and Pastor.

    • IF YOU ENJOY PREACHING GOD’S WORD ,THEN WHY SHOULD YOU GET PAID TO DO SO. YOU SAID YOU WORK,PAUL WORKED WITH HIS HANDS AND DIDN’T WAIT AROUND TO SEE IF HE WOULD BE PAID. PAUL CONTINUE TO DO GOD’S WORK THE APOSTLES TRAVELED AND LODGED, BUT THEY DID NOT RELY ON OTHERS TO KEEP THEM. . YOU CAN’T SERVE GOD AND MONEY! 1st THESSALONIANS- FOR YE REMEMBER, BRETHREN, OUR LABOR AND TRAVAIL FOR LABOURING NIGHT AND DAY, BECAUSE WE WOULD NOT BE CHARGEABLE UNTO ANY OF YOU, WE PREACHED UNTO THE GOSPEL OF GOD. TITHING WAS REPLACED WITH GIVING!! GIVE OUT OF LOVE ,VOLUNTARY, SHOULD NOT BE A BURDEN,GIVE OUT OF YOUR ABUNDANCE.

      • Hi Princess,

        I think the following might be helpful.

        1 Peter 5:2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, serving as overseers–not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;

        It all comes back to character. 1Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:7-8 spend far more time talking about character than anything else. An elder must be eager to serve not because he has to or because he’s looking for something but because God wants him to. Because God wants him to should be his only motive.

        Paul, who you mentioned worked with his hands, said the following that should help you better understand this topic.

        1Timothy 5:17-18
        The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”

        Preaching and teaching is the elders work Princess. If he does it well, meets the requirements and his sole motive is to serve the Body than he should be paid.

        I think the problem we have with this topic is that we see the excessive salaries of some and think it’s the norm. I can assure you that it’s not. What we generally talk about here are the exceptions and maybe we didn’t spend enough time talking about the rule.

        Thanks,

        Phil

  6. I find the pentecostal circuit an interesting point – check out ministries that have the same set of pastors travelling around (literally the world) speaking at each others churches and receiving large “love offerings”. The minor pastors in those churches who aren’t invited to preach struggle just to keep their heads above water.

    This is a serious issue when you think about it – how many “offerings” taken up at endless rounds of conferences?

    Perhaps this is a little off topic but there is a lot of money in the larger congregations (mega churches) and when you investigate the itinerarys of certain pentecostal pastors, it’s very interesting!

  7. I have no problem with the pastors needs being taking care of by the church (food, shelter, a means transportation).

    However, as we have seen in this blog as well as others, some pastors are recieving money based on church tithes, number of members, and job performance (not sure about that one).
    This always leads me to ask a question that only THAT pastor could answer.

    Are you trying to get more members to join so they can tithe and increase your income, or are you truly trying to save as many souls as you can.

    Its a tough question, but if the pastors salary is based on numbers of people in the church it needs to be asked.
    For me, a set income (no matter how big the church becomes can help weed out the greedy, from the Godly)

    Although, I could be wrong.

  8. Phil,

    I could argue that an organization that hires a leader is not a church to begin with? I could argue that anyone who won’t preach the gospel for free doesn’t preach the gospel? I could say to you that most people do not think that the local hamburger joint has their best interest in mind so why would a paid according to attendance pastor have their best interest in mind-or I could remind you that the term pastor is only mentioned one time in the NT and the office of elder is mentioned 32 times? I could say alot of things but I can’t figure out why you are hitting me soft lobs trying to get me to the net?

    Phil:Teddy’s comment is sorta the direction I’m going:)

  9. Its interesting how keen some pastors are to have their support staff work for free, too. Including where the support staff are facing financial stress, are capable of working somewhere else full time, and where the loving thing to do is probably to encourage them to actually look for work elsewhere in order to survive. Even to the point of pressuring these underpaid people to contribute to building funds etc on top of all that, or lose approval/position.

    I agree with Teddy re the love offerings, too.

    It’s unusual to see a love offering taken up before the preaching too. If people are more impressed (or guilt-tripped) will they pay more?

  10. Hi All,

    Thanks for the comments….

    Ann brought up Joel Osteen and the fact he makes money off of the books he writes but the reason he is able to make a fortune off the books is due to his being a “celebrity pastor”…..with a worldwide reach via television and conferences that he does not pay for personally….do you believe this is ethical?

    Teddy mentioned what I call the “buddy system” where “pastors” share each others pulpits for big money….how ethical is this?

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts….

    Phil

  11. 44,000 is way too much not to talk of 1.25 million dollars. No wonder we have so many people scrambling to become pastors. :-D

    I won’t say I’m totally in support of pastors being paid. Nobody should go into pastoring with the mind of being paid.

    However in 1Corinthians 9, emphasis on verses 10-15, Paul says

    9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
    9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
    9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
    9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
    9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
    9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
    9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
    9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
    9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

    From the above passage, it is clear that it is scriptural to give to the man of God (I don’t mean PIMPS). But, also note that Barnabas and Paul never took advantage of this right for the sake of the gospel.

    True biblical giving is about equality and not about abundance like we see today. In a situation where the man of God is in need, the people he oversee can assit.

    There are several ways we can meet the needs of our overseers without paying them. We see enough examples in Acts.

    Here is a link to an interesting discussion on the topic.

    http://www.yomisays.com/?p=683

  12. One of the problems with most of the scriptures that everyone uses to justify paying a minister is that they are talking about food or clothing not money. We owe everyone Godly hospitality, which is to share with those in need. Jesus separated discussions of money from those of hospitality in all his teachings, however the effort to justify salaries has preverted the spirit of the lessons. When Jesus sent the twelve and the seventy he told them not to take money, but to live off the hospitality of those they preach to. The scripture says “who plants a vinyard and does not “eat” of the fruit”, or who feeds a flock but does not “drink” of the milk, or do not muzzle(to prevent from eating) the ox that treads out the corn. All of these examples concern the simple life sustaining act of eating for nourishment as payment for labor.

    If we are to substitute food for money or money for food then can we do the same with the act of communion? We have become so spoiled that food and clothing is considered a given or a right ,so we are discussing how fancy a car we should provide a minister ? I think we are reading alot things into scripture.

    • I think your statement about pastors being recompensed with food, clothing etc and not money is absurd. when you pay your tithes and offerings do you pay it in food and clothing, or money? The Bible is clear as crystal that those that preach the gospel live from the gospel. “keep the pastor poor, and humble” is based on religiosty, because that is not what God intended for Pastors. Pastors are not from the dumps they are men appointed by God not by men. their call is higher than that of the president, they are ambassordors of Christ representing His Kingdom. They are the rightful custodians of what comes into the church to help them live. Read 1 Corinthian 9v14(NKJV). the first statement say “The Lord commands…..” don’t change what God ordained

  13. Our Lord Jesus left the privileges of heaven to identify with us (“he came poor that we might become rich”). Most Christians have a “tent-maker” ministry, working in an occupation where their spiritual obligation is not evangelism but simply to “be ready to give every man an answer for the hope that is in them.”

    Since the Incarnation is the central tenet of our faith, full-time pastors should be ready to serve a congregation at the median income of the people who are members of that congregation and not look for an income like a doctor or a lawyer simply because clergy are “professionals” and have had as many years of academic traininng.

  14. Phil,
    Naomi cites the appropriate passage. There is no question the pastor ought to be paid. On the other hand, any pastor who wouldn’t do it for free if he is able is a spiritual whore. The ideal situation is to have a pastor that is independently wealthy and, therefore, able to work free. That being almost never the case, we shouldn’t be asking a guy to starve. That’s actually against the law in the US, so why are we debating something that is clear in Scripture and so obvious that the pagans have outlawed it?

    What troubles me about this discussion, however, is the last part of the question. Why is a Christian even contemplating a female pastor? How can one be so ignorant of Scripture? This is why I say we need a reformation, not a revival. We don’t think biblically.

    In Christ,
    Phil Perkins

    Hi Phil….Thanks for bringing the women “pastor” issue up….as many here know I have brought this issue up over and over again and there is no such thing as a female pastor….I only tossed it out there because it seems as though people actually believe there is such a thing….

    Yes we need a reformation….badly…

  15. Hello there!

    Since I am a minister (but not a pastor of a church), I will say that I do believe that pastors should be paid .

    Many ministers who start a ministry organization use their OWN MONEY for the building and for all of the expenses of the actual ministry for several years. People come to be ministered to for years and many are not financially supporting the ministry other than $1 or $2 a week or an occasional $10. The ministry leader is still paying the electric bill, the gas bill, the A/C, the bills for the furniture, the bills for the insurance, the printing costs, the equipment, etc. and the church members ASSUME that the other church members are supporting the ministry so that it is operating. This is happening more often than you may think.

    When I started out in ministry, I did a lot of evangelism, and the materials that were passed out for free were purchased with my own money….the Bibles that were handed out for free were purchased with my own money…I am sure that people felt that other people were donating and that the money for everything was coming from so many financial blessings but THAT was not the case…I was spending my own cash in order to reach people for Jesus.

    The point that I am making is that when the general public tries to point to THREE or FOUR multi-millionaire preachers in order to have a discussion on preachers…they are having a SLANTED dialogue because 99.9% of the preachers out here are not even multimillionaires… or even mega church pastors.

    If you want to discuss preachers and salaries, have a REAL and FAIR discussion by talking about the majority of preachers ….and not the .0002% of preachers who are in an entirely different income bracket than all of the others who are out here.

    Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
    Lisa

  16. Hi Everyone,

    Just some thoughts on pastors from my experience in my neck of the woods. I see way too many who don’t manage their congregations very well. Imho, it’s a family and should be treated as such. There shouldn’t be any pew sitters. They should all be entrusted to do something, even if it’s just the dishes or taking out the garbage. If you don’t do your job as a parent, then you raise spoiled rotten brats….and I have witnessed Churches full of them.

    The problem I think we face in Churches where there are full time paid pastors, is the same we see in the everyday workforce. IF you. as a pastor, train someone to do your job, they just might do it better than you, and you may lose your position. Well, in the Church, we do want to elevate those who do a good job and IF a pastor lives in fear of this, then the Church will suffer.

    On the other side of the fence, those in the pews who think their only obligation is to show up on Sunday and throw some money in the offering plate are even more dangerous. IF they lack the desire to become more involved, then they need to be challenged on why they are there. I don’t care how busy they are, you always find time to do the things you love. While their money might be appreciated, they set a very bad example imho and it is very contagious.

    I have found that the pastors who do work outside the Church are far happier and more secure BUT I do believe that if the Church can afford it, paying a pastor is scriptural – as Naomi pointed out.

    Hey Phil Perkins – thanks for picking up on the female pastor issue. Good catch. :)

  17. Phil,
    I know you know better than women pastors. I was not criticizing you at all.

    BUT what Boyd Miller has said is interesting. Could he clarify and add more Scripture to bolster his position. Don’t know if he will change my mind, but I’m interested in reading more.

    Phil Perkins.

  18. Absolutely, a pastor should be paid. A workman is worthy of his hire and there is a tremendous amount of work that goes into the pastorship, especially when it’s done right. That is a real job, especially in huge churches.

  19. Just a few thoughts-

    (1Tim. 6:8) And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. The paid to preach crowd hate this scripture.

    Matt. 6:11- “Give us this day our daily bread”
    Do you believe food and money are interchangeable in the scripture as most of us have been taught in the church/money paid to preach system? If seed is money then why doesn’t it grow if you put it in the ground? (Matt. 25:25)

    If you are going to use 1Cor. 9 as justification for paying preachers, then why do you ignore 9:15?

    Paid ministers are like paid consultants (I am a consultant), they only get paid as long as they tell their employers what they want to hear.

    A Godly workmans wages are laid up as treasures in eternal life.(1Tim.6:19)

    There is a great difference between living of the gospel and living on the gospel. Everybody wants to be Joel Osteen, nobody wants to be John the baptist or Stephen.

  20. Great boydmiller!!!

    We saw that paul worked with his hands so that he won’t be a burden to the people he pastored.

    1Co 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
    9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
    9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
    9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

    But it doesn’t mean that he didn’t enjoy the support and care of some others.

    2Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
    11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
    11:9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.

    I won’t support when a pastor will have to run around like every ambitious fellow out there to earn a living. If he is going to work, he needs the kind of job that will afford him the time to take care of his responsibilities as an overseer.

    Giving it a good balance, every believer should be sacrificial. At the same time we all need love and care from the family we belong to. Both the pastor and the flock should be treated the same way and in most cases the pastor should be willing to sacrifice. Nevertheless, we shouldn’t take advantage of the humility of our pastor by neglecting our responsibilities.

  21. Phil Perkins-

    In regard to my earlier comment. In the beginning of 1Cor. chapter 9, after Paul’s short resume he ask the question in verse 4. “Do we have no right to eat and drink”? This being the primary question he answers in the following verses.
    In 1Tim.6 Paul takes on the prosperity crowd and states in verse 8 “And having food and clothing with these we shall be content”. All paid ministers have adopted the prosperity gospel to some extent and teach that money is the key to outreach and growth. The interchange of food and money is used whenever convenient to further this point.
    In Matt. 10 when Jesus sent the seventy he plainly separated food and money and stated in verse 7. “And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, FOR THE LABOR IS WORTHY OF HIS WAGES…. The wages are food and drink, no mention of money other than they weren’t to take any.

    In the writtings of the apostles (Didache) in chapter 11 it is stated that an apostle or prophet is to receive bread, but if they ask for money they are false. Allthough these writting are not scripture, they do not conflict with scripture.
    All of the scriptures that are used to justify salaried ministers of the church either pertain to the OT temple system or misuse Godly hospitality and food. If a man of God or an angel unawares comes to me I owe him food and drink and a garment if he needs one.
    I used to think the use of the term “bread” for money came out of the hippie culture of the 60′s, but it appears the church/money system started it before then.

  22. Boydmiller,
    Thanks for getting back on this. Boyd, I’m REALLY with you on the abuse of God’s people and God’s Word by the money grubbing spiritual whores. In fact, the folks I prayed with at church last night are a good example of the lack of discernment that make this extreme evil. Two fellows in their late 30′s or early 40′s were talking after prayer. Both agreed that they “couldn’t get into” a particular “Christian” band, and they preferred something called “Red Umbrella”. Sadly I failed to rebuke them for their carnality–rating other Christians against each other. The whole thing was disgusting. Sadly, unlike you I didn’t register a rebuke against this sin. Thank you for being vigilant. So few are.

    In rereading and reading your last response I would like to point out somethings. First, be careful of bad logic. You wrote, “Allthough these writting are not scripture, they do not conflict with scripture.” Neither does “The Wisard of Oz”. That fact doesn’t mean anything in The Wiz is relevant to the question. Worse, adding to the things God has given us in the Scripture DOES contradict the Scripture because the Scripture forbids it.

    Second, be wary of red herring and straw man arguments. Most churches I attended didn’t tie the pastor’s salary to attendance unless it had to do with what the assembly could afford. So lump all of them into a pay-for-full-pews isn’t correct as far as I know. It’s a straw man. And to say that the NT doesn’t mention monetary compensation explicity is a red herring. It doesn’t mention central air, either.

    And if the OT does mention it explicitle we know it isn’t a sin. Therefore, we are permitted to pay the pastor. Just the logistics of it would suggest we pay the man. Do you want to go grocery shopping for the guy and his kids? Why not take the dough and give it right to him so that he doesn’t have to act like a lap dog.

    Please consider and don’t stop being vigilant.

    In Christ,
    Phil Perkins.

  23. Hello brothers and sisters,

    Bodymiller has raised the crucial issue here: our interpretation of Scriptures that teach on supporting the minister to be a pointer to money. In reality, it may and it may not.

    In Bible days, food was shared daily among the needy. Certainly, that was extended to the preachers who taught them, hence Paul’s mention of “double honour” for ministers in 1 Timothy 5:17.

    If a congregation meets the needs of the needy within it by giving them an allowance (money), then its okay to extend an allowance to the pastor as well.

    Secondly, ALL New Testament giving is premised on NEEDS. That’s why Paul mentions food and drink when teaching on this. And in the other passages that both he and Jesus taught on related subjects (and which the prosperity crowd twist), all talk about being content with food, clothing, boarding. The basics.

    Like I told my congregation when we looked at this subject some time ago, if I were not working, they were obligated to meet my needs (not luxuries). This would mean basic boarding, feeding, etc. If I want more than just having my needs met, its my responsibility to go get a job.

  24. Paying a preacher’s rent, board and clothing is one thing. Paying for his car, plane, gadgets and general luxuries is another thing. Like Bro. Yomi, you want the luxuries, go find a job and pay for them yourself…

  25. Hi All,

    Another healthy discussion…thanks for that!

    What do you guys think of honorariums…..should evangelists and pastors guest speaking at other churches suggest or charge a certain fee? Check out the following link;

    http://www.justinpeters.org/booking.htm

    Notice the following quote from the page above;

    “Justin accepts invitations on a first-call, first-serve basis regardless of the size of church. Love offerings are the normal compensation though other arrangements are possible. Transportation expenses and lodging are appreciated”.

    What do you make of this? He appears to be a sound guy doctrinally and exposes the WoF movement but isn’t he just as guilty as the folks he’s exposing in regards to his request for “compensation”?

  26. Well he is disabled, and a full-time minister. I’d be more at ease helping him financially than someone like Warren, Price, Copeland, Hinn, etc. I agree that the language used could really have been put better.

    Compensation is really inapproriate, but I think it isn’t as bad as some others…just my thoughts

    Phil: His own church doesn’t even pay him Doug…..and some might argue that if he is able to get an M Div then he would be able to hold numerous non physical jobs if he chose to….and yes his language is bad IMO…

  27. Another hireling. Yes he is guilty of peddling the gospel, even if he is closer to correct doctrine. If one takes ten dollars and another takes ten thousand are they not both thieves? It seems as though the majority thinks that payment is fine until they get rich then it is wrong? How much would these churches pay me to tell them to sell their buildings, buses, and cars and give the money to the poor and to gather in their homes for prayer and worship? Nothing, nota, zip, 0. You cannot make money preaching the word of God, however churchology pays rather well.
    I wonder if he is as aggressive with the errors in the baptist church as he is with the WOF movement or is he in demand because he reinforces baptist beliefs as their numbers decline?

    If you want to draw a big crowd at a baptist church just run a headline on the bulletin for the next service.

    “Can a methodist get to heaven?

    Guess speaker– Dr. Soandso
    (don’t forget to bring your checkbook)

    Sorry Phil, I can’t help myself

    Phil: Don’t ever be sorry for speaking the truth my friend…I agree with you and I too wonder how aggressive he is with the Baptists…he’s even selling his thesis on Benny Hinn for 14 bucks…..

  28. Well, I don’t believe that he is a hireling for several reasons. Firstly, he is not preaching false doctrine to make himself rich, as with the likes of Copeland, Hinn and co. Secondly, and this is purely conjecture, for all we know he may not be an aggressive Baptist – that’s an assumption.

    I fail to see the difference between Mr. Peter selling his doctoral thesis and John Piper selling his books and CD. $14 is a bit steep, I agree, and it does sound like he’s peddling his wares. That said – I feel he is sincere. Maybe I’m being a teenager, but if he is wrong then what are we to to make of preachers who request an honorarium before they speak? What of Christian bookstores?

  29. Boyd,

    You have raised many great points. You’re driving me to scripture. That’s a good thing. :)

    You know, the SBC is in huge trouble. Their numbers are declining, they have the emergent church very active among them and they are divided now on arminianism & calvinism.

    Ken Silva at Apprising ministries has written extensively about it. I’ve tried talking to some of their members and they are closed to anything they view as criticism of their denomination even if they are just questions. When that happens, then the handwriting is on the wall. The enemy has breached the gates and they don’t have a clue.

  30. I didn’t read all the posts, so if this verse was quoted, well, it won’t hurt to quote it again, now will it? :D

    1CORINTHIANS 9

    1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

    2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

    3 My defense to those who examine me is this:

    4 Do we not have a right to eat and drink?

    5 Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

    6 Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working?

    7 Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard, and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?

    8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things?

    9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?

    10 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.

    11 If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we should reap material things from you?

    12 If others share the right over you, do we not more?
    Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things, that we may cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ.

    13 Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share with the altar?

    14 So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

  31. hi phil i have just realised how much work you put into this site

    from MUGGLE

    Phil: Thanks Muggles…..You still have to run on Monday dude:)

  32. We don’t have scripture for much of what commonly goes on n our churches no matter your flavor.
    I read somewhere that in the time of the pilgrams there were nearly 900 types of apples growing in “new land” now there are fewer than 30.
    One problems we have with the topic at hand is we can’t compare apples to apples. “Should a Pastor get paid?”The first reference was then about Paul the Apostle. The role of a Pastor in the New Testement was a rather novel idea. The Bible only uses the word Pastor 9 times and only once in the N.T. In hebrew it means one who tends the sheep, grazes , feeds, rules or teaches.

    Romans 15:27 …”For if the Gentiles have been partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them carnal things.”

    I Cor 9:11 “If we have sown unto you spirtiual things, is it a great thing if we reap your carnal things?”

    Some people might say that still means beans and weenies for the man of God. I would say pay him as you would in honoring God.
    Much of what we do is still based on speculitive assumptions. Since we have no record of Jesus paying the disciples on the first and the fifteenth we say it never happened. I believe that would be wrong to assume such things. Jesus did have a treasurer in his team and never once to we see them giving to the poor or buying rent for someone.
    I say pay.
    Pastor Mark

  33. How about there is no such thing as a “pastor”. Would that be a challenge! How about Paul was not a Pastor but an Apostle/Evangelist/Preacher/Church Planter. So if they travel then yes, but a “salaried” position is nowhere condoned in scripture. Each was commanded to work with their own hands. Especially today when 80% of all giving goes to infrastrucute and salaries. But I can go on with this for a while. If you pay one pastor why not pay them all (pastor/elder/bishop/overseer are synonymous)

  34. You are right Lionelwoods,
    The bible cannot be studied, and the truth will not be found, thru the lens of tradition. The laziness of the masses does not diminish the truth of the word.

  35. I think the bigger picture is, as lionelwoods7 suggest, that according to scripture there is no such thing as Pastors that we are all to familiar with today. The early church was composed of ONLY believers as they gathered together to encourage one another in Christ and when they gathered, they read the scriptures (i.e. the Old Testament) and as the Holy Spirit so led them, they shared with the congregation what God was speaking to them. It was not man that spoke to the church during their gathering time, but it was the Holy Spirit. The job of the Elders were to, as they were mature in the word of God, make sure that no false teaching was given as people discussed from among themselves concerning any spiritual matter.

  36. I do believe in the 9th chapter of 1 Corinthians, Paul details the many things that he, as an apostle, can receive from ministering. In verse 14 He goes on to say that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel. He points out a series of explanations for justification of how a minister of the gospel is entitled to compensation. But he reconciles the entire message with the fact that he DID NOT partake in those things. He said preaching the gospel was reward enough. I think it’s clear that Pastors are entitled to compensation. I just believe that Paul warns Ministers of the gospel not to abuse this right. Because if the money stopped flowing and the people didn’t believe tithing was a Christian requirement, could they just preach the gospel and have that be their reward?? Like it was for Paul, shouldn’t teaching the gospel and saving souls be enough reward? Or should we continue to take the last cent from Christians and justify it through our own reasoning?

  37. the law of mose is no more…this was nailed to the cross..
    there is no more tithe,,if there is no temple,no priest,no sacrifice
    today… all shadows of things to come…

    the levitical law states the 10 % was for the up keep of the temple tax.priest the levites and for the poor….

    there is no temple to day..no levi to make sacfifices for us

    Christ was that sacrifice for us .. now we dont need a priest to make intercession for us, We can enter the thrown of grace ourselves..but we are to give freely as God gave his son for us….

    God says not to be greedy…..when the jews brought the animals for sacrifice and their offerings…they sick blind and lame…this showed the condition of their hearts..this is what god looks at.

    if you order your people to give 10% you are putting them under the levitical law…and that is bondage. God has called you to grace.

    We are no longer under the law of mose…jesus was born in form of sinful man ,yet did not sin and born under the law of mose..

    to do away with all temple service…because he was the sacafice…

    but the law of God which is the royal law ….still stands and can only be fullfilled through christ in dwelling in you…

    you give freely now… Pastors when you preach freedom to your flock they will give freely….pressed down running over to meet the needs of the church..as they did in acts…they lacked nothing..

    they took care of the needs or each other….including the pastor

    God wants all of you not just 10%… percent of you…

    do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing…

    you dont have to fill out the thithe envelope… Just thank god and toss it in the offering basket.. he is the one that will supply all of your needs…it does not mater how much you give…it is done already he paid the price… I have a whole lot of scrip to back all this up.. thanks for looking..M

  38. Hi M,

    I have some questions for you. You claim the law is abrogated, but Christ said He didn’t come to abrogate it, but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17). Two different positions there imho.

    So is it ok to murder, steal, covet, dishonor mother and father, etc.? By what standards to we conduct ourselves? Paul called the law HOLY JUST AND GOOD (Rom 7:12). Do you disagree?

  39. Paul says that we should give out of our abundance so that others may not lack and they chould give out of their abundance so that others wont lack and it makes an equality within the body, giving to the church should be for the support of everybody not just one person, idont have a problem with the pastor getting paid but if he’s not in need and someone else is why not help that person instead, giving should only be for the needs of people in the body!

  40. Answer: A pastor, preacher, teacher, and/or other is not a servant of the One True Heavenly Father or a servant of the One True Jesus Christ or a servant of the One True Holy Spirit if they are paid.

    John 10:12-13

    If you still are puzzled or think its okay that a servant gets paid (yes even a preschool teacher) then your soul (life) is in serious danger as you now KNOW the answer and deny

    Sincerely, A Friend and Servant, Don.

    Phil: The Scripture you have presented has nothing to do with providing for the pastor. Is paying or not paying the pastor a salvific requirement? You need to clear that one up for me Don.

  41. Dearest Phil (and others),

    The bible states if one shares the truth to others they are responsible for the others… I have shared. Thank you Phil for writing herein. The passage has everything to due with paid servants and a pastor is a servant.

    John 10:7+
    (NIV)-courtesy of http://www.biblegateway.com
    {my comments}

    7Therefore Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep {sheep = humans who follow}. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I{Jesus} am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He{was sheep and now saved and friend} will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I{Jesus} have come that they{friends of Jesus} may have life, and have it to the full.

    11″I{Jesus} am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.{Yep! Jesus did that} 12The hired hand{workers that are paid} is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf{Satan} coming, he{workers that are paid} abandons the sheep{you} and runs away{because the workers know they are not working for the One True Gods Son “Jesus”}. Then the wolf{Satan} attacks the flock and scatters it{prophecy so it will happen}. 13The man{Note: not sheep bc, not follower,… worker.} runs away because he is a hired hand{Yep! worker} and cares nothing for the sheep{hmm wonder what he cared for? $$?, Prestige?}.

    14″I{still Jesus-always will be} am the good shepherd; I know my sheep{followers with patience and love building a friendship with Jesus. Amen.} and my sheep{same} know me— 15just as the Father{The One True God – see above – He who sent thee, Jesus.} knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep{Because Jesus loves us}. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen{aka ‘fold’ meaning there are more than one group of sheep. As with all things in the bible everything I have learned so far shows completion via twos aka pairs… yes even the virgini birth. Amen.}. I must{Jesus sets the example by still doing what he is told. Hmmm by whom? Yes the One True God aka Heavenly Father.} bring them also. They{2nd fold} too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd{prophecy again… it will happen and it will be a wonderful party. Amen.}. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again{Jesus life was not taken from him but he layed it down. Also he did not give up but gave it with love.. love everlasting.}. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord{Yep!}. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again{Sounds like free will…Hmm were does each of our free will lay.}. This command{Jesus still doing as told.} I received from my Father.”

    19At these words the Jews were again divided{Divided again. Note again (happens in twos)}. 20Many{Note: Many.. .Hmm can you think of a time in the future where we will see a division and many will not follow? Why wont they follow… there leaders are fake… working for money or prestige…} of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”{they were wrong yes? Yes! In whom do we trust? In whom do we build a friendship? Why do we build that friendship? How do we build that friendship? When do we build that friendship? (repeat questions please and stay true.)}

    21But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”{Yes! others believed. Oh the other fold… Hey complete context.}

    Again!! Thank you Phil. May God Bless You and Yours.

    please allow my email to be posted as there are those who want to ask questions in private.
    donaldstanley2@hotmail.com
    Sincerely, A Friend and Servant, Don.

    Phil: Hi Don. Thanks but maybe you need to see this posting. I think it will clear some things uo for you http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/is-it-biblical-to-provide-for-the-pastor/

  42. Should a pastor be able to set their own salary? We have seen a pastor who has a small group of paid staff run the church and set the pay each receives. We have asked but they will not disclose the amounts to the congregation. They have no deacons or elders and do not solicit or accept any input from the congregation. I have been deeply troubled by this. Should I be or should I just let it go?

    Phil: You should be VERY troubled by this. In fact you should run as there isn’t any accountability where church leaders are concerned. Run James Run and never look back.

  43. If this church is in the USA, I’m not certain this guy can operate this way. In the USA, the government see a church as a corporation — the pastor is the CEO, the elder/deacons as the board & the members as the shareholders. All of the church property is actually owned by the shareholders & at any point the shareholders have the right to revoke the CEO’s leadership. Also, by the CEO & board withholding the corporation’s financial statements or taking no vote, I believe the church/CEO/board is in legal trouble. I’d check it out with a lawyer if you are serious. Then you would need to get help from other “shareholders”.

  44. Hey All,
    I think the real question here is whether or not it is Biblical to tithe. Those of you who do not believe in paying pastors, where is your money going? Is it that you believe the church is stealing your hard earned income? Is it not God’s money? In my own experience, those who do not believe in tithing are usually the same ones who do not believe in paying pastors. 99% of you who do not believe in paying pastors do not give to the needy, you don’t take homeless people into your home, you don’t care for the parentless. Tell me, are those ministers who do bring in the big bucks being any more hypicritical than ourselves?

    • Where do you get your figures from Jessica? I’m talking about the 99% who you say do not help people?
      You just presume this to be true due to YOUR opinion on the matter and your own personal experiance? How would you know anyway? Isn’t a TRUE Christian supposed to do his alms in SECRET? Please refrain from speaking things that you cannot say one way or the other! You sound more like a JUDGE then a DOER of the word. I have preached the Gospel for ten years without even taking 1 cent. And many are being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit! As far as giving to the poor…………..THAT IS BETWEEN AN INDIVIDUAL AND GOD. Romans 14:4, Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. And by the way, THE TITHE IS THE LAW. SO IF YOU DESIRE TO LIVE ACCORDING TO THE LAW, THEN YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW. SO DON’T MISS A PAYMENT OR ELSE YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE. But here is THE TRUTH 2 Corinthians 9:6-7, Remember this: The person who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and the person who sows generously will also reap generously.
      7. EACH OF YOU MUST GIVE WHAT YOU HAVE DECIDED IN YOUR HEART, not with regret OR UNDER COMPULSION, since God loves a cheerful giver. In other words, DON’T LET ANYONE COMPEL YOU TO GIVE!!! BUT GIVE WHAT GOD HAS PUT IN YOUR HEART because TRUE CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART AND NOT OF THE LETTER WHICH KILLS!

  45. Here’s how I dealt with the question:

    I asked myself, “Were ministers always paid and if not when did they start getting paid?”

    I found my information by Goggling, “Emperor Constantine” and that lead me to, “First Council of Nicaea”. It seems that “three hundred years” after the apostles die off was a very important turning point for Christianity—and what an eye opener it turned out to be!

    Concerning Constantine and the Council’s tampering; some of its statements were very straightforward and it seems there’s more trouble out there then whither or not ministers should be paid—here’s what I mean by that: I’ll give you an example by using something I always believed to be clear, plain Christian doctrine; surly ordained by Christ himself, and meant to be observed by all Christians. That’s “The Sabbath” our Holy Day of Rest—Sunday.

    Well, not the case! The observance of a Sunday Sabbath day for Christians wasn’t instituted until 321 A.D. when Emperor Constantine decreed “Sunday” to be a day of rest for all people but farmers. That day was formerly associated with astrology and sun worship and had nothing whatsoever to do with how original Christianity was practiced.

    SO THEN: If something like the Sunday Sabbath for Christians wasn’t practiced by the apostles (who knew Jesus personally) why are we observing something that was clearly instituted by an imperfect man over three hundred years after the fact? Why do we observe doctrines that are so clearly inaccurate? Should “traditions” practiced for so many years that they “appear to be factual” take precedence over truth once truth is discovered? Jesus didn’t think so because he said, “And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mark 7:1-8) New King James Version.

    Well, that returns me to my opening thought. There’s ample evidence that there were many spurious (commands of men) additions to original Christianity that have been taught as “factual” Christian doctrine right down to our day. Among these “commands of men” have been: the split between the clergy and laity classes, the installation of a Sabbath rest day, and yes, “the payment of the clergy class for ministering to the congregations”, to name but a few.

    So then I would have to say that no one’s W2 should read: Occupation: “Servant of the Lord.”

    • Hello,

      You said

      Well, that returns me to my opening thought. There’s ample evidence that there were many spurious (commands of men) additions to original Christianity that have been taught as “factual” Christian doctrine right down to our day. Among these “commands of men” have been: the split between the clergy and laity classes, the installation of a Sabbath rest day, and yes, “the payment of the clergy class for ministering to the congregations”, to name but a few.

      God’s Word is fairly clear on this issue;

      1Ti 5:17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.
      1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING,” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

      That doesn’t mean the preacher should get rich off of his or her congregation but they should take care of a preachers immediate needs. Anything the man would like extra he should work for this.

      Phil

  46. I just read through all these comments and I’m absolutely dumbfounded. First, that the question would be asked at all. Second, that the meaning of 1 Timothy 5:17 could be so readily ignored.

    I’m been a pastor for 20 years. The first 10 years, I held down two jobs to make ends meet. The next set of 5 years I was paid around $4,000 per year. Over the last five years, I’ve made around $25-$30,000 per year. I don’t mind at all because like the widow’s mite, my congregation is poor (but rich in spirit) and they are giving all they can.

    So Phil, you said that “anything the man would like extra” meaning above his basic needs, “he should work for?” What do you think he’s doing in the church?

    Do you want your pastor out working extra jobs to pay for his kids college? Really? I pity the congregation that would allow their spiritual leader to be so double-minded. The purpose of paying a pastor two-fold:

    #1 so that he “lacks nothing.” By lacking in nothing, it means he can devote 100% of his time and effort into the ministry of the Gospel. Shortchange your pastor and make him wonder how he’s going to afford a candlelight dinner with his wife, or his kid’s boy scout dues and I promise any congregation out there, they’ll get less from their pastor. It’s not going to be on purpose, it’s going to be because he’s going to be distracted by the simple stressors of life.

    #2 As if the biblical command isn’t clear enough, paying your pastor is an exercise of Christian value. You want to know where your heart is, check and see where your church finances go. Is 70% of it in a building fund? Your heart is in your building. Is your youth fund constantly dry? Your heart isn’t there. Are you shortchanging your pastor? You’ve got no heart for him then.

    Someone above said $44,000 per year was too much to pay a youth pastor. I’d love to hear a good biblical explanation as to why that is. The future of the church is in young people. How do you put a price tag on that?

    I’ve known parents that spend $100 per hour to put their kid in counseling. They pay $20 per hour for music lessons or karate classes. And yet the thought of paying a youth pastor anything more than $10 per hour is “ludicrous.” That youth pastor who loves their kid more than any of the rest, who is going to stand by that kid, meet that kid after hours, celebrate every birthday and special event with that kid, hold that kid’s hand through every breakup — what is that worth?

    It’s worth more than what parents pay their karate teachers, I can tell you that. And what they get is far more valuable than being able to play a G chord on the guitar.

    Some of the people here need to fall on their face before God and seriously think about what they’ve posted. You want to know why the church is failing in America? Blame Hollywood all we want. Our blame women pastors. Or do whatever you have to do to keep that finger pointed out. But I promise you that attitudes like these is one reason.

    I’ve seen far too many churches treat their pastors with contempt. And that is no where more evident than in the salaries they doll out with hard hearts.

    • Hi David,

      Thanks for commenting.

      I work 2 full time jobs as well and until last Sunday was the Pastor of a small congregation. I planted this church and now God has raised up someone else to take over so I can better serve the community.

      Each year I personally give out 1000 ESV Study Bibles to the guests of my tennis academy out of my own pocket. At 30 bucks a shot that’s probably more then most people make in a year. That estimation is based on a average worldwide income. It far and away exceeds the average income of my community.

      We don’t have a building fund here because we don’t have a building which is akin to the early church. We don’t have a “youth pastor” because that isn’t biblical. Any special events for youth has always come, and always will come, as long as I’m here, out of my pocket and I don’t whine and complain about it.

      You know why David? Its God’s money and not mine. He has blessed me richly. He called me to serve and that doesn’t just mean my time but my money as well. I feel honored to be able to do these things.

      Some preachers feel they deserve a Bentley for their troubles and this is part of why I posted this posting. This blog discusses these types of excesses regularly.

      Take Care,

      Phil

  47. HI i have a question maybe someone will have an answer for me or just a point of view ;
    my pastor is a full time teacher and a part time pastor in our church how ever he has a salary that is more that 50% of all church income in top of his salary as a teacher now our church is a very small in numbers still ;and lately finances has been and issue the question that i have is that if he should get paid for his work even if he is playing a roll of a part time pastor

  48. I am a pastor’s wife and have been for 20 years. I have read all of the posts and haven’t heard anyone mention what a man gives up when he answers the call to pastor. He gives up any private life he or his family might have. He also gives up the choice of where he might choose to live. He is on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He is in service at least 3 times a week and studies many hours more than that. He gives up the opportunity of being at all of his children’s events as his children grow up. He listens to everyone’s problems, even when he is having problem’s of his own. He lives in a fishbowl, everyone is watching everything he does, and most waiting for him to make a mistake. Do you realize that pastors have are more prone to nervous breakdowns and heartaches than any other occupation. So before you say that pastor does not deserved to be paid, ask yourself if you are willing to make all the above sacrifices free of charge. Don’t get me wrong, we have done ministry for nothing, but to be effective and a 100% pastor your time cannot be divided with a secular job and the pastorate because something will go lacking. Also, what about the scripture that says, “A man of God is worthy of double honor”. I would just like to say thank you to all of the true pastors out there and you are worthy of double honor!!!!!!!!!

  49. Matt. 6:32 NLT
    Why be like the pagans who are so deeply concerned about these things? Your heavenly Father already knows all your NEEDS,

    (it is of course referencing the basics…see verses 25-31)

    He never said He would give us ALL of our WANTS.

    The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not WANT.

    Biblical standard. How do I spot a “spiritual Gentile”?

    Matt. 6:32-33 NASB
    “For the Gentiles <<>> all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

    “But * <<>> first *His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be *added to you.

    It’s about our priorities and how they help define who and what we are as Believers.

    • It deleted the text between the brackets..

      Matt. 6:32-33 NASB
      “For the Gentiles EAGERLY SEEK all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

      “But * SEEK first *His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be *added to you.

      It’s about our priorities and how they help define who and what we are as Believers.

  50. This is a topic that one can’t come to a conclusion easily without the Lord teaching them what is appropriate. The Bible is tough to conclude an answer here. It does appear as though our churches are functioning in a way that they didn’t in Paul’s day. In his day all members of the church were one community. You didn’t go to your gathering back then and just sit in a pew, listen to someone speak, then go home. Passivity wasn’t an option. Modern churches bread passivity in the average Christian. There is no dialogue, no conversation, the pastor never learns from the everyday Christian who actually has a job. Many pastors now a day’s have never had a real job in their life, and yet they are teaching people who have. This is a shame. Pastors are asking for tithes and are robbing people of them being able to give to the poor. They are essentially profiting off the gospel of Christ.

    Paul explained that in the church their are first Apostles, then profits, then evangelists, then teachers and pastors. Why are modern churches run by pastors anyways? By that verse, God even puts evangelists ahead of pastors, but how would an evangelist like Stephen (in the bible) make an income. It was his gifting but surely he made an income of some other manner. Why do you think we don’t see anyone lining up to be an evangelist? An evangelist is someone who preaches to the lost, not asking them for money but doing it out of their love for the poor and their special abilities and commission God has given them. The elders in the churches were profits and teachers like in Antioch. Can anyone name any churches that have a profit as an elder. Maybe one or two if your lucky but thats it, of the millions of churches they know of.

    Our only commandment in the new covenant on this matter is that we give to the poor. If the poor is a Christian, give to that person what you deem you should, If it is a homeless person, then do the same for them. We need to bring the church (not churches), back to God’s Kingdom and stop letting people profit off the gospel.

    • Hi Jesse,

      You said;

      Many pastors now a day’s have never had a real job in their life, and yet they are teaching people who have. This is a shame.

      Can you please share with us, using Scripture, where your above statement makes a Pastor unqualified?

      Thanks,

      Phil

  51. Hi Phil, I wasn’t saying a pastor is necessarily unqualified if they have never had a job. I was referring to how a lot of the young pastors who come out of pastoring schools have never worked a full-time job and yet they are teaching people about how to conduct themselves in their job. That is what I was referring to. It probably sounded like I was coming down hard on pastors. It is admirable what they do. I have always admired the desire people can have to do God’s will. The thing I am challenged by is weather it is God’s will for everyone to just get up and take the initiative on ourselves instead of waiting on God to enable us to do His will. It makes me wonder if we are working in vein and if God will really be behind us, merely because our goal is the right one. I could have the desire in my heart to teach people about God but maybe he has different ideas for me, maybe he wants me to be an evangelist instead.

    You asked me for scripture. One comes to mind, where paul defended his ministry by telling them that he didn’t take money from the church, he worked as a tent maker to pay his way. So that would mean that Paul had to spend a lot of his time working along side his ministry.

    What are your thoughts on all this Phil?

  52. Hi Jesse,

    Thanks for your comments. It seems to me that you are thinking more along the lines of finding God’s will for our lives then paying pastors (at least in your opening paragraph.

    It certainly isn’t God’s will for everyone to Pastor. James 3:1 says;

    Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

    Not many would not be all, correct? The problem today is that everyone and their mother thinks its God’s will for them to teach without any thought whatsoever to James warning.

    Paul defended his working as a tent maker and not becoming a burden on others to support him. That was his choice otherwise he would have contradicted himself;

    1Timothy 5:17-18

    Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”

    You see where Paul says “labor in preaching and teaching”? Labor here means to work hard or feel fatigued. Anything less than that type of hard work would be unacceptable. That type of hard work is what Paul felt should be rewarded.

    1Corinthians 9:11-15

    If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
    If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.
    But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing these things to secure any such provision. For I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of my ground for boasting.

    Notice Paul says he had a right to reap material things from the Corinthians for the spiritual seeds they had sown. Paul had a right to ask for these things but he didn’t but again that was his choice.

    Here’s the rub. Unfortunately unscrupulous people take this verse and apply it to whatever they claim to do in God’s name should be compensated for. Some have blown this up to the point where folks in the pews are starving yet the pastor has a mansion and a 6 or 7 digit salary. Those excesses shouldn’t keep us from correctly applying scripture which clearly states that those who labor hard in teaching or preaching should be paid…..as Paul says it’s a right for them to be paid.

    Hope this helps,

    Phil

  53. Having an ordained husband, growing up in the “church” and experience many different aspects of church life have sobered me. We hosted a small home fellowship for nearly 3 years while my husband worked full time for another non-profit ministry. It was beautifully EXHAUSTING.

    While Paul and Barnabas had personal convictions for their own provisions, I do not see Paul condemning the paying of a minister. Just as he does not condemn marriage for ministers, but personally chose not to marry because of the obvious challenges it brings to ministry. They did not have wives or families. They traveled and were not stewards of a home, utilities, cars or a local body of people requiring daily shepherding. And shepherding people, whether 10 or 10.000 is
    one of the most laborious and weighty callings.

    I’m no theologian, that’s my husbands niche, but I see this as a BOTH/AND scenario. Pastors are worthy of compensation to the best of a church bodies ability, AND pastors must be willing to be men of character and good stewards so as not to misuse the generosity of God and His people. The lack of integrity on both parts leads to the unloving attitude of withholding from our ministers as well as the grotesque abuse of the people of God. No man knows the heart. So judging someones motive for become a Pastor or condemning wealth of a Pastor does not advance the kingdom. We pray for HIS will to be done and choose love.

    If you have not had the unique experience of serving a body of people in a pastoring role, you would be sobered by the demands, the warfare, the sacrifice and even loneliness that exists. Pastors are often some of the loneliest people with the greatest stress. True Pastoring for those authentically called is not for the weak of heart or anyone that wants to live a cushy life in a cushy chair. It is the beaches of Normandy.

    So if a church has the means to help their Pastor keep his family fed, sheltered and shoot, maybe even take them to the doctor or on a vacation, then for crying
    out loud…. do it. If it is NOT against God’s word, then why not choose LOVE and
    generosity.

  54. I know I’m coming to this discussion late, but I’d like to offer a different perspective.

    This discussion has largely been framed in the context of paying a pastor a salary to preach the gospel, and various scriptures have been interpreted different ways to justify or condemn the practice. But most pastors in churches of any size these days do a lot more than just preach. They over see and administrate large organizations – a task which it could be argued that biblical notions of evangelism didn’t speak to one way or another, at all.

    One must always remember that the “church” is actually a social construction – one which evolved around the task of carrying out the teaching and discipleship of a particular faith – in this case, Christianity. But, instructions to the Jews notwithstanding (since we are not talking about the jewish people here), the Bible never lays out a particular prescription for exactly what a “church” should do or not do – it only instructs us to go and make disciples, teaching them to obey what Jesus has taught.

    So anything that the church does that is tangential to that specific task – things such as overseeing the upkeep of the edifice, managing things like the mortgage and insurance, administrating the various “ministries” of the church (audio/video department, for example) – could be construed to be secular tasks that should be treated under secular rules – i.e. The foward-thinking church that wants all these things should pay the person who does them as any employer would pay an employee who performs labor.

    When you look at things that way, you paint a very different picture than that of a money-grubbing pastor who tells you that he can help you get to heaven … for a fee.

  55. I have been in the ministry for 7 years, of which I have either been in evangelism or pastoring a church. As as evangelist, I received whatever a church choose to give, never requiring a gift to come and speak. As a pastor, I never required a certain amount of money, only what the church was willing to give. I am a bi-vocational pastor. I left a professional job at the age of 32 to join the ministry, but have always had a job since then. I have found that I do far more preaching and building up the kingdom while in the world, than I do while in the church on Sunday or Wednesday.
    My question is how many pastors would continue to preach if there was no money involved? Are they called by God or by motivation? So many see this as a career and treat it just the same. I left my career to do the will of the father, yet I still work since my first ministry is my family. Should I depend on the widow to care for my needs or is it the other way around? I have found that far to many pastors and churches operate under the guidelines of business and progress, rather than edification and spreading of the gospel.
    Should a pastor be willing to receive a monetary gift? Yes. Should he also be willing to walk in the purpose he was created for and receive nothing? Yes. I feel the modern model of church as we have known it over the last 100 years is far worse than the temple and pharisee’s it housed. We have forgotten what it means to be the body….followers of the way. One can twist the word to create a fragmented truth to justify their belief, but it is the Holy Spirit who ultimately reveals to the heart of man what is real or false. We have forgotten how to trust, how to listen, how to love…

    Acts 4: 32 All the believers were united in heart and mind. And they felt that what they owned was not their own, so they shared everything they had. 33 The apostles testified powerfully to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and God’s great blessing was upon them all. 34 There were no needy people among them, because those who owned land or houses would sell them 35 and bring the money to the apostles to give to those in need.
    36 For instance, there was Joseph, the one the apostles nicknamed Barnabas (which means “Son of Encouragement”). He was from the tribe of Levi and came from the island of Cyprus. 37 He sold a field he owned and brought the money to the apostles.

    So why can’t we live like this anymore? FEAR. Fear is the greatest tool the enemy uses against the believer and the lost. The lost is hopelessly lost in fear, while the believer gets trapped in it. Pastors are called by God to preach and to TRUST, but fear compels them to fall back into their nature and seek security on their own. In a sense, a full-time pastor requires great faith to step into the so called church for his entire compensation. Yet, if he tires of them or vice versa, they fire one another and move on to the next church/pastor. FEAR is the thing that keeps them from humbling themselves and finding a way to be honest about problems and ways to correct them. So many times the problems hinges around MONEY.
    I am currently seeking understanding as to what God wants his church to do in regards to compensation to those who preach/sing/etc. I personally want to be free from such a thing forever so that nothing can keep from speaking freely what the Holy Spirit leads me to say.

    Be blessed my brothers & sisters in Christ!

    • The problem with the mainstream church is its high dependency on money. Dependency on money is slavery in itself.

      How do you pastors do it when your under so much pressure with keeping people coming in order to ensure the bills and you are being paid?

      Some churches pastors preach O.T. tithing and required attendence and membership and say things like “You can’t be a lone Christian.” “You’ll die if you quit church.” or give the impression that it’s a sin not to be there. The whole motivation for this is I don’t think the ‘love of money’ in most cases but the ‘ dependencey on money’. It boils down to pastors enslaving Christians to church by making Christians dependent on church. They get people to believe they can’t really be a Christian a part from church so they won’t quit going. If Joseph made it in Egypt all by himself than so can I here and now without going to church… and I don’t go any more… many reasons.

      I love God and love Jesus, always praying even having been away from church for more than a year. I love talking to God. It was enough to have one leg chained to a job but to have the other leg chained to church and church duties and free service and paying the church to do it while pastors and a select few are paid for thiers.

      The assembling of God’s people should have never been turned into a business where people go to college to make pastoring a career and thier livelihood. The effect of money is too corruptive. My itcing question, “Pastors… Are they serving God for money or serving money for God?”

      Dependency on money makes pastors a slave to it. I don’t know how pastors do it. But yet aren’t we all dependent on money, really. I can be honest. I do a job I enjoy and do it to make money for food, housing, etc. I’m certainly not getting rich.

      • First of all, Our faith, while highly personal, is never a private matter. It is worked out within the context of community and relationship. The first commandment to love God with all of our heart mind sould and strength (vertical relationship) and then to love our neighbor as ourselves (horizontal relationship). Our faith is matured through relationship. So taking the attitude that you can pray on your own and worship on your own is at best misguided.

        Secondly, the Bible OT and NT has quite a bit to say about money including ‘where your treasure is, there your heart will be also’. People have issues with money and Christianity because they have heart issues. God is not in lack and doesn’t ‘need’ our money. We, however, need to give it. It is more blessed to give then to receive. Our giving opens doors for us to receive in that we’re expressing the very nature of God who so loved the world that He gave. As a pastor, I teach people to give so that God can supply their needs, personal and ministry needs, in an abundant way. (Malachi 3, 2 Corinthians 9)Here’s one that will blow your mind, the ‘principle’ behind tithing existed before the fall of man in the garden of Eden. I’ve seen amazing miracles happening in people’s lives as the result of honoring God with one’s firstfruits of their increase.

        Being a pastor is a calling. I pity the ‘self-called’ so-called professional clergy.

        • Pastor, you have bought into the modern church/business/growth/prosperity model and are misusing scripture. The firstfruit of your increases is not referring to wages. Your taking money from people who are in debt up to their eye balls and have no increases and are telling them that they will prosper by giving. The Temple and the tithe both ended when Jesus died on the cross. Man no longer has to approach God through a priest or offering. When Jesus died the veil of the temple was torn in two(Matt.27:51). Please read the following article about tithing,

          http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

          Christians should give to the poor if they are able, but should pay their debts first.

        • Does it bother you that a person can have a relationship with God and still keep Him central in life apart from the church institution? I can’t see God saving His people from thier sin to turn around and have them become a lifetime money and work slave to some Christian business that calls themselves ‘the church’.

          My faith has matured through trusting in God and Jesus Christ in tough situations, having God come through for me after I have prayed and asked my Father for help.

          So you also think a person can buy God’s blessings with money? Remember Simon who wanted to buy the ability to lay on hands and give the Holy Spirit from Peter? Your teaching of giving in order to recieve is teaching people to be a Simon. It’s not that giving is wrong, but God will be judging a persons motives. If we are truely God’s children, He will supply and give us what we need, including chastisement when we do wrong.

  56. I am actually in the process of writing a paper on this very topic. does anybody have any good books or articles upon the topic of the paid pastor/preacher/etc?

  57. Re: Women pastors or women in any ministry. I guess no-one has ever stopped to think about this much because I’ve noticed on many websites the blanket responses to women pastors and preachers, but I had some questions. Here goes:

    1. Was the Great Commission to go and preach and teach the nations only for men?

    2. On the Day of Pentecost, did the Holy Spirit fall on the men only or the women too? The scripture does say all of them sitting in the room were filled and they began to speak in other languages of which the Jews without heard them. Wouldn’t they have heard the women?

    3. If the Holy Spirit fell upon the women too, which Peter alludes to in Acts 2:17, then they were prophesying. The Greek word for “prophesying” in that text is propheteuo, which literally means to speak forth by divine inspiration, to to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others. Hmmm, sounds like one of the jobs of a pastor.

    4. We know that their were women referred to as Prophets in both the Old and New Testaments. Philip the Evangelist had 7 daughters who prophesied, and Anna who saw the baby Jesus in the Temple was a Prophetess. So if the five-fold ministry in Ephesians includes Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Evangelists and Teachers, why would it be ok for a women to hold the office of a Prophet, and possibly Evangelist and Teacher (depending on one’s other beliefs) and none of the other offices?

    5. Why in the original Greek text of Romans 16:7 is a woman named Junias addressed by the Apostle Paul as being outstanding among the Apostles? Remember, this is the original Greek, not the English KJV interpretation. Junias is definitely a feminine name (Iounias, which is a proper feminine noun of latin origin) and the Greek text is clear that she is among not known by, but among the Apostles. It is interesting that her name was translated to be a masculine name through the KJV.

    6. How about Colossians 4:15? Paul greets in the original Greek, Nympha, not the English KJV translation of Nymphas, and Paul says he greets Nympha and the church that is in her house. Paul mentions no man’s name. Another interesting fact is that this feminine name was translated from the original Greek to a masculine name. Nothing like manipulating the scriptures to keep up with an ideology.

    7. Why is it ok amongst most churches for women to teach children, both male and female the Word of God during Sunday school or youth sessions? At what point does she become unable to teach that male child? Does this also apply to mothers? Is there a specific age where a young man no longer listens to his mother’s advice concerning God’s Word?

    8. How do we know for sure that the scriptures in 1 Timothy 3 concerning Bishops/Elders and Deacons are only for men? Weren’t there also women Deaconesses in the Bible? Phebe in Romans 16:1 is referred to as a servant in the church. The Greek word for “servant” in that text is diakonos, which just happens to be the same Greek word for Deacon in 1 Timothy 3:12.

    9. Another question concerning 1 Timothy 3 is how do we know that refers to men only? Aren’t most of the scriptures addressed to “men” but of course, we know them to encompass women too. For example, in 1 Timothy 2:3-4, Paul writes that God wants all “men” to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. If we take that “written” word there literally, does that mean God only wants men saved and not women? Most of the scriptures address everyone as “men.” On the opposite side of that, in 1 Timothy 2:15, Paul writes that women will be saved through childbearing. The Greek word there for “saved” is sozo, which is the same Greek word used in other passages of scripture dealing with salvation (e.g. Romans 10:9). Hmmm… Does that mean that women can only be saved and go to heaven if they have kids? What does that mean if a women is barren or died before she could bare children? I hope you are laughing at this moment, because it is ludicrous; however, I am laughing with tears because this is what brothers are doing to their sisters in the Lord, not God.

    10. Paul in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 does state that a woman should learn in quietness and full submission and that he does not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Re: these verses, does it mean that a women is submitted to every man and must do what every man tells her to? Or could Paul be referring to a husband and wife relationship? Paul goes on to give Adam and Eve who were husband and wife as an example.

    11. Regarding the Corinthian Church in 1 Corinthian 14 where Paul tells the women to be silent. Paul was giving correction to a chaotic church. They were a mess, not only the women, but the men and prophets. However, is every church a mess needing the same correction?

    12. If a woman has the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells on the inside of her and she is a new creation in Christ Jesus and there is no male or female, Jew or Greek, bond or free in God’s eyes, then isn’t it possible that at some point she will understand the scriptures too, maybe even enough to teach them under divine inspiration?

    13. What is a pastor? It is a person who cares about someone enough to lead and guide them to the Lord.

    14. Did Jesus ever tell a woman not to teach His Word? No. In fact, He spoke to a Samaritan woman when it was against the custom to do so, and she became the first evangelist for Him, going back to her town to tell everyone about what Jesus said to her. Then Jesus chose to appear to Mary, a woman, first before any man and told her to go and tell the men that He had risen. Isn’t that the Good News of the Gospel? That Jesus is risen? Mary was preaching to them.

    15. Is it possible with the inception of the organized church buildings and such that we’ve forgotten the grassroots of the church? They used to meet in homes and women owned homes just like Nympha. She pastored those who came to her home. That was the church. Perhaps the organizational inception brought up the issue that only men worked outside the home and, thus because a pastor’s job was considered outside the home, it took on a whole new meaning other than what was initially God intended.

    16. My last point, and more of a rhetorical question, why is it that all the religiions that do not teach the Gospel of Grace, put women in bondage? Women are considered as second class if not little more than a piece of property. They must be silent and some cannot even be seen in public. Satan has always hated women and tried to place them in bondage since the Garden of Eden when God told him there would be enmity between her seed and him. It was the first prophecy that our Messiah would be born without the help of an earthly father because women don’t have seed. Ever since that time, Satan has been trying to destroy women so that seed wouldn’t come forth. That is why so many people get angry over these issues. They don’t even know what “spirit” they are of and why they are so angry over women being able to preach, teach and pastor. There needs to be careful consideration when one’s religion has the same standards as one that is anti-Christ.

    Jesus brings liberty and freedom to everyone and He calls everyone to the Great Commission, which includes pastoring. He is thrilled when anyone wants to share Him with someone else regardless of their gender. A woman who wants to share the Gospel with everyone she meets, regardless of their gender and who geniunely cares about people’s souls, prays for them and gives them wise counsel cannot be rebellious against God’s Word. Perhaps if we got out of the box, more people would witness about Him and more people would be inclined to care for others and more people would get saved?

  58. Hi Bob,
    Actually this site has dealt with the issue of women pastors. So have many others. You can see for yourself at the link below;

    http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2007/05/25/women-in-church-leadership-biblical-or-blasphemy/

    I think the above link answers most if not all of your questions but I will answer a couple of your comments/questions that I don’t think were brought up in the above linked to discussion;

    The numbers coincide with your numbered points/questions

    1). To answer your first question regarding the Great Commission please see the following link;

    http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/02/11/are-they-really-following-the-great-commission/

    4). The office of elder has a certain set of requirements where as a prophet does not. You can find that list at 1 Timothy 3:1-7. Women can’t be the “husband” of one wife can they?

    5). This is from Friberg Lexicon

    14215 Ἰουνιᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ (also Ἰουνίας) Junias, masculine proper noun (probably RO 16.7; see Ἰουλία)

    There are others that claim this can also be a name for a woman. Either way you missed the way in which Paul used the word apostle…..easy mistake to make when you don’t know the language. Paul is using ἀπόστολος in a much broader sense as one who was sent out…he certainly wasn’t naming “Junias” as an Apostle. For the requirements of an Apostle please see the following link;

    http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/do-genuine-apostles-exist-today/

    I think the links provided answer the rest of your comment/questions.

    Thanks,

    Phil

  59. In my opinion, you can’t pay a man of God enough. You don’t muzzle the ox when its treading out the grain AND the workman is worthy of his hire. If he’s ministered to you in spiritual things you should minister to him in material things. You don’t ask any other vocation to be bi-vocational. If you want quality and free the man of God to focus on fulfilling his calling, preach the word, cover your church and community in prayer, equip the saints to push back the darkness, win the lost, and help families to raise godly heaven-bound children. AGAIN, you can’t pay a man of God enough!

  60. Pastoring is one of the hardest jobs ever!. Yes, it is a Job.. Its a calling, a passion for lost souls, a desire for building the body of christ, a gift for edifying people, and bringing God’s divine system into the earth.

    A pastor should be compensated, and compensated very well. Can you put a price on someone who has dedicated his life to feeding you spiritually? Seeking countless hours in the presence of GOD for messages to be preached to you. Praying for the members in his church, counselling, visiting the sick, and discipling men and women to go and becomie soul winners.

    GOD has called pastors in the earth, to care for the sheep. It is the sheeps’s job to ensure that their spiritual leader is WELL cared for. Noticed that I capitalized WELL!!!

    A pastor should nevery have to worry about mortgages, insurances, transportation, food, clothing, health benefits, college for children, home repairs, etc..

    Deuteronomy 25:4 Muzzle not the Ox that treadeth out the corn.

    A corporate CEO makes 300K a year. Is not a pastor more valuable than a CEO? Yes, he is!!!!

    Remember!

    It was Judas who thought it was a waste when Mary Magdalene poured expensive oil on the feet of Jesus. Judas said that this could have been sold and proceeds given to the poor.

    Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to my own heart, and they shall feed you with knowledge and doctrine.

    GOD provides for his servants thru his body in the earth. His body is you and me.

    No pastor called by GOD should be working full time jobs, and leading a church at the same time.. And any church body who is making their Pastor do this, should repent!!!

    Realize that GOD has place a vessel in your midst, and you should show your gratitude to God’s workers. When the bible says to sustain God’s servants, we must provide for our pastors that work in the vineyard.

    This is the year 2011, we don’t live in huts and run oil lamps. We sustain Pastors with anything they need in the current times. Giving your Pastor a run down 1991 Chevy Berretta that runs hot at every stop sign, says something on the way your care for the minister.

    If the Pastor is immoral, a thief, fornicator, liar, and all around evil person taking advantage of GOD’s people. Then leave him immediately allow his demise.

    Bottom Line

    I believe a Pastor should have a salary so Big, he nevery has to worry about money ever. He is free to focus on feeding the sheep.

    No, I am not a pastor. I am a sheep!!!

  61. This is Travis again

    In my comment about no church should make the pastor work a full time job. I realize that there may be some exceptions.

    Case in point. A church only has 10 members, and the tithes that come in aren’t enough to sustain a pastor and his family. The pastor my have to work a little until the flock has grown to the point where the pastor can become fulltime ministry.

    Unless, one of the members is a millionaire. Every pastor should have millionaires in their church. This will allow a bigger impact in ministry and soul winning.

    Not so they can abuse the millionaire or vice versa.

    I believe that whatever the world has, the church should have and better. A poor man has no voice, and this world operates by money.

    Next you go to a restaurant and eat, pray when they give you the bill. When you are finished praying, the bill will still be their waiting to be paid with money.

    Remember, GOD is the victor and satan is the looser.

    • What did Malachi mean when he said, Will a man rob God’?
      A Christian is accused of robbing God when he or she does not pay so called tithes. It is also used to condemn Christians who do not tithe. Some preaches use Malachi to bully their congregations into tithing. When reading Malachi indicates that the prophet Malachi is criticizing Israel’s religious leaders -Levitical priests who did not tithe according to the Mosaic Law. According to the malachi, the Levitical priests were robbing God. They robbed God by not tithing. They gave blemished offerings that were not suitable for sacrifice and the priests were responsible for bringing acceptable tithes to the altar. Tithe was offered to cleanse Israel of sin. When the priest did not tithe according to the Mosaic Law, they placed themselves and Israel under a curse.

    • Travis, tithing is an old testament custom that Jesus did away with. You also said;

      Unless, one of the members is a millionaire. Every pastor should have millionaires in their church. This will allow a bigger impact in ministry and soul winning.

      Jesus first sermon in Nazareth was started with this statement;

      “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; Luke4:18

      I’m afraid you are ripe material for a pastor to mislead.

  62. In reality, the institutional church is more fitting to be seen as a Christian club than anything. In this case, the pastors and those who work for the business should be paid for thier services. Church IS a business. Without money, the business dies. If anyone reading this is one who enjoys getting thier Christianity from a busness and being involved in all the song and dances it has to offer, you should support it or don’t go.

  63. I am a former full time worship pastor. I wa paid 31k annually which isn’t much, but I wasn’t in it for the money. I spent years studying music and my only desire was and still is to only use my gifts for God. I find it ironic that people would think it rediculous to not be paid as a secular musician (unless someone just wanted to play for free) and yet balk at the idea of them using their talents, skills and gifts in the church.

    Same thing goes for other types of pastors, particularly senior pastors.

    What kind of people “expect” others to give pf themselves and do for them and not be compensated for it?

    Paul was an exceptional man of God. Are we going to then judge everyone by Paul? Expect every minister to do what Paul clearly said was voluntary on his part?

    As for me personally, I would prefer not to ever take money for ministry again. However The time may come when I do accept a paid position again. I think it is more than reasonable to expect compensation according to the need and resources available.

    If you don’t pay your minister, then more often than not you are going to get what you pay for.

    That said, you should not give or pay out of obligation, but out of love.

Comments are closed.