Modern Day Prophets?

A couple of weeks ago I introduced you to Justin. He’s the guy who claimed I was a spiritually dead false teaching devil who crept in unawares within the Body of Christ. It appears that Justin hears God’s voice and actually speaks for God. Rather then ripping this man’s “prophecies” to shreds or attacking him personally I thought it would be better to examine biblically whether the office of prophet is still in operation today. Take a look at Justin’s “prophecies” and then come on back to see what God’s Word has to say regarding this matter. 

 

Let’s begin with a portion of Scripture from the Book of Hebrews; 

Hebrews 1:1-3 ESV 

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,  

In the days of old, God did indeed use prophets to communicate to His people. He spoke through these prophets in various times and various ways. These prophets were honored and revered because what God’s chosen prophets revealed proved to be true. These prophets didn’t make any mistakes when claiming to speak for God. Most, if not all the “prophecies” that so-called or “self-called” prophets claiming to speak for God today clearly contradict God’s Word. How can this be?  

As the writer states in verse two, Jesus was chosen and sent by God to communicate to His people. God became man and communicated personally to His people. It should be obvious that we don’t require another prophet because God did this himself. Jesus wasn’t speaking for God…..He was and is God. Isn’t His Word enough? Apparently not because people are claiming to be prophets speaking for God worldwide. Let’s move on. 

Ephesians 2:19-22 ESV  

So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.  

Notice how the writer refers to whom and how the household of God was built. He states that this household was built on the “foundation of the apostles and prophets”. How many times does a builder lay a foundation when building anything? Once! What happens when the foundation is broken? You have to knock down the whole house and start over!  

The writer goes on to state “Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone”. Christ is the interlocking piece that holds the whole foundation together. Would Christ interlock with anyone who wasn’t called personally by Him? Would Christ build his household with an inferior foundation? Why we need to re-build a foundation anchored by Christ and completed by the apostles and prophets is beyond my scope of comprehension.  

Youtube and the Internet are chock full of these “prophets” claiming to speak a “word from the Lord”. These so called prophets all have websites that are nothing more then appeals for money either through donation or to buy their merchandise. I suspect that money may be their motivating factor. Even Just  has a “donate now” section on his website.     

I don’t know whether Justin is delusional or just plain silly. One thing is for sure…..he isn’t speaking for God. He certainly isn’t a prophet unless he believes that he can somehow replace Christ, the apostles or prophets and re-lay the foundation of the true Body of Christ. Close inspections of his “prophecies” show several contradictions to God’s Word and that’s the clincher folks. If it contradicts God’s Word then it ain’t from God. 

Based on my interpretation of God’s Word, the office of prophet is closed. Any new revelations or prophecies should be considered as man made….not God inspired unless you think Christ failed in laying the foundation or Christ didn’t communicate effectively enough.    

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32 thoughts on “Modern Day Prophets?

  1. I looked around Justins site for a while and found that God talks to Justin regularly.

    Maybe the next time Justin prays he can ask God why he contradics his writtenword? Or why he seems to talk to Justin in rather vague rabblings?

  2. Phil,

    Modern-day prophets, as in people who God talks to? Why would He need them? He’s passed across to us all the revelation we need already.

    Every single modern-day prophet I have examined has fallen short of the mark flatly. They are either continually vague, or undeniably unBiblical in their prophecies.

    • I believe there are a some out there still. the only problem is with the non-believers. sometimes they wait for a certain sign or the word before they can say anything. sometimes they don’t get all the information at once. it comes thru the days but in sequence. it takes a while for these people to realize who they are, who they always were. they can’t just tell people they are prophets from god, they cant just tell you things that can’t be proved that day. if we were in the days that were then they could be more useful. but today people are so negative, so quick to judge and so jealous of what other people have. real prophets don’t have an easy life. they are waking up and learning what their job is today. the world has turned ugly.have faith, and believe the unknown. Patience 222 5,9

  3. Cop,

    Nice to see you! I informed Justin and his pastor about this post so maybe they can clear all of this up for us?

    Yomi,

    I agree completely. Why people follow them and fund them is beyond me?

  4. Didnt all the apsotles do the sighns of prophets and thy came after christ. Jesus said he that belives in me the works i do he shall do also. I. If what you are saying is true than what is the seventh angel in revalations. What will the to witness be in revalations. They will have to be prophets. I think thay god will send a prophet and you will miss his message because you dont belive in them. just like john the baptist. They asked christ wasnt elias suppose to come and he said he already came and you missed him it was john the baptist.

    Phil: Joe, welcome to Theology Today!

    Revelation 11 states that there will be two witnesses. The text is very specific. I doubt that todays “prophets” are these witnessess. Todays “prophets” speak “prophecies” that contradict God’s Word……these 2 prophets from Chapter 11 won’t.

    Please remember that John the Baptist came before Christ.

  5. Joe, notice as well the great signs and wonders the prophets from Revelation perform. We certainly don’t see that sort of confirming witness among those who CLAIM tom be prophets today.

    Of course, the ultimate sign of a true prophet is his harmony with Revealed Truth. Modern day prophets fail both tests, along with the critical test of 100% accuracy.

  6. Phil, can you show me a Scripture that says that the prophetic gift or the other 9 gifts of the Spirit would cease to function after the early Church?

    I want you to approach this in fear of the Lord, brother. Many in the church today lack the fear of the Lord and this is evident in their speech. They say anything they want just to justify their view. But we are dealing with the King of the Universe and His very words. We need to handle it with extreme care, and not foolishly in our flesh.

    The Lord bless you,

    Sidharth

    Phil: Sidharth, this article deals with the office of Prophet which I have clearly and Scripturally proven does not exist today. Your comment would be better suited and answered in either of these two articles;

    http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/a-discussion-on-tongues/

    http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/a-discussion-on-the-baptism-of-the-holy-spirit/

  7. No offense to anyone, but I’ve always wondered why it seems no one has ever dealt with this text when it comes to prophets:

    1 Corinthians 14:28-38

    28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

    29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
    As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

    36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.[a]

    Now, personally, when I look at that, obvious to me that there were PROPHETS in the congregation…..and that they were not of the same stature as that of AGABUS, since he was on a NATIONALLY KNOWN LEVEL and whatever he said CAME TO PASS/100% accurate. No one seemed to have to weigh what he said. When he spoke, THEY ACTED without QUESTION….Acts 11:27-30

    As another wisely phrased, “just as there were members of the body in Corinth who apparently were frequently used in the gift of the interpretation of tongues who were known as “interpreters,” so there were those who were frequently used in the gifts of prophecy and revelation who were considered “prophets.” These would not be prophets in the same class as Old Testament prophets or even someone like Agabus in the New Testament (see Acts 11:28, Acts 21:10). Rather, their ministries would have been limited to their local church bodies.”

    “Although there might be more than three such prophets present at a church gathering, again Paul placed limitations, specifically limiting prophetic ministry to “two or three prophets.” This again suggests that when the Spirit was giving spiritual gifts in a gathering, more than one person might yield to receiving those gifts. If this is not so, Paul’s instruction could result in the Spirit giving gifts that would never be enjoyed by the body, as he limited how many prophets could speak.”

    “If there were more than three prophets present, the others, although restrained from speaking, could help by judging what was said. This also would indicate their ability to discern what the Spirit was saying and possibly imply that they could have yielded to the Spirit themselves to be used in the very gifts that were manifested through the other prophets. Otherwise they could have only judged prophecies and revelations in a general way, by making certain they were in agreement with revelation God has already given (such as in Scripture), something any mature believer could do.”

    “Paul stated that these prophets could all prophesy sequentially (see 1 Cor. 14:31) and that “the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets” (1 Cor. 14:32), indicating that each prophet could restrain himself from interrupting another, even when given a prophecy or revelation from the Spirit to share with the congregation. This shows that the Spirit might give gifts at the same time to several prophets present in a gathering, but each prophet could and should control when his revelations or prophecies were shared with the body.”

    “This is also true concerning any utterance gift that might be manifested through any believer. If a person receives a message in tongues or prophecy from the Lord, he can hold it until the proper time in the gathering. It would be wrong to interrupt someone else’s prophecy or teaching to give your prophecy.”

    When Paul stated, “you can all prophesy one by one” (1 Cor. 14:31), remember that he was speaking in the context of prophets who had received prophecies. Some have unfortunately taken Paul’s words out of context, saying that every believer can prophesy at every gathering of the body. The gift of prophecy is given as the Spirit wills.”

    Curious why, however, the prophets in the Congregation of Corinth had to have theirs weighed or even with the risk of being ignored/being challenged by others unlike Agabus, who seemed to have 100% accuracy and was always heeded (Such as when he uttered a PREDICTIVE PROPHECY to PAUL:

    Acts 21:10-11.

    Moreover, regarding this issue of 100% accuracy, what do you do with verses on prophecy, seeming to describe how things such as NT prophecy was not infallible but had to be judged by others (1 Cor 14:29) was sometimes a mixture of good and bad (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and was such that it could even be despised – presumably because of its eccentricity (1 Thessalonians 5:20)?

    If prophets have the same level of authority in the NT as those in the OT, then what do you do with individuals such as Paul who IGNORED, who seemed to have freedom to disregard even the best prophets as seem when he disregarded Agabus and went on to Jerusalem since in his heart he already decided that was what God wanted and not even the believers who took Agabus’s prediction to mean he shouldn’t go could not stop PAUL? (Acts 21:10-14)

    Moreover, when it comes to prophecy, if prophecy is for edification, encouragement and exhortation and NOT PREDICTIVE but FORTHTELLING–BASED IN SCRIPTURE (as some say), they why would it be wrong to call someone a prophet who does these things? Surely someone such as Judas and Silas would fit the bill since they “said much to encourage and strengthen the brothers’ Acts 15:32-34.

    Are they really on the same level as those in the OT or even those in the BOOK OF REVELATION?

    Was this necessary an issue of 100% accuracy? And in the usage of prophet, is it biblically consistent to say that the usage of the term “prophet” WAS ALWAYS IN THE SAME SENSE as it was with others? Or could it be used in a looser term?

    Personally, I’m for the concept of a CONGREGATIONAL PROPHET. As I have come to believe (with reference included), “It seems quite plain from a consideration of Acts and 1 Corinthians 14:29-32 that the New Testament gift of prophecy is quite different to the Old Testament conception of ‘prophet’ – The new prophets can be expected to be active within church congregations and not necessarily in any way famous beyond that. One of the difficulties for us in understanding the conception of prophet in our day is partly due to the fact that the Greek word translated prophet (propheteis) is really much broader than the English word ‘prophet’, which tends to have quite a specific ring. Truthfully, the Greek word can – just as easily – mean ‘inspired speaker’, or ‘encouraging speaker’, and some of the New Testament references don’t necessarily go beyond that.”

    For reference:

    And to be clear, of course the GIFT OF PROPHECY AND THE OFFICE are two different things. You don’t need one to have the other. For example,
    not all who prophesy are prophets. Many Christians prophesied but the office of prophet was next to that of apostle and was an itinerant and probably full-time ministry. According to one of the references I had, Paul says bluntly “not all are prophets” ( 1 Cor 12:28-31) yet seems to imply that the gift of prophecy can be sought by most Christians. (1 Cor 14:1-5)

    “Phillip the evangelist had four virgin daughters who prophesied but they are not called prophets. (Acts 21:9) Women prophesied in Corinthians but were explicitly not to be given authority in the Corinthian church. ( 1 Corinthians 11:3-5, 14:34,35) Thus for some reason these women who prophesied in that church were not given the office of prophet in that church. The gift and the office are different.”

  8. To add some more things,

    At one point, it was said elsewhere to me that prophecy was all about forthtelling, BASED on the verse dealing with how prophecy is for edification, encouragement and exhortation in I Corinthians 14…..and that that therefore means that all prophetic words dealing with a PREDICTIVE NATURE are invalid since much of what is seen today on TBN/other places involving spiritual abuse include such things.

    I disagree, seeing that I’ve experienced predictive prophetic words myself (or more appropiately termed “WORDS OF KNOWLEDGE”)….in light of that, some scriptures to consider:

    1 Timothy 1:18-19

    18Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.

    1 Timothy 4:11-14

    11Command and teach these things. 12Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. 14Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

    2 Timothy 1:3-6

    Encouragement to Be Faithful

    3I thank God, whom I serve, as my forefathers did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers. 4Recalling your tears, I long to see you, so that I may be filled with joy. 5I have been reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also. 6For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

    1 Thessalonians 5:19-24

    19(A)Do not quench the Spirit;
    20do not despise (B)prophetic [a]utterances.
    21But (C)examine everything carefully; (D)hold fast to that which is good;
    22abstain from every [b]form of evil. 23Now (E)may the God of peace (F)Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your (G)spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, (H)without blame at (I)the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on these paticular things?? Moreover, what are anyone’s thoughts on this as it relates to the prophetic? Is the prophecy this verse is describing of a PREDICTIVE nature, or simply encouragement of one’s giftings that are apparent?

    One of my brothers in Christ (Jessie Phillips, from “Resurgence”, who is also a Reformed Charismatic) that I’ve talked to had this to say (As he said it best when listening to Him……and if anyone’s interested, let me know so I can point you toward where to find him at):

    “In order to answer the question of whether prophecy is the same as teaching and preaching, there would need to be some examples of New Testament authors using the word this way. It must be the New Testament authors’ use, not the semantic range, that shape our theology of prophecy.

    I think that the New Testament authors to mean something different than preaching when they speak of prophecy, and I will list a few examples. I hope to write a brief paper on this later, examining all of the data more exhaustively, but a shorter version will have to suffice here.

    Romans 12:6-7 : “If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;”

    Here, when Paul mentions prophecy, I don’t think he means preaching-teaching, because he mentions teaching separately from prophecy. If prophesying were the same as preaching-teaching, this would be redundant. Also, the phrase, “in proportion to his faith” seems to imply some level of risk with respect to the validity of the prophetic utterance, something we would hardly tolerate in preaching the known truth of the gospel. In this passage the prophetic utterance contains unknown projections upon the future, requiring risk and faith, contrasted with the teaching gift that contains utterances about the past and known events surrounding Christ and his accomplishment on the cross.

    Luke 1 (Zechariah): Luke records that Zechariah prophesied over Jesus. But this was not preaching or teaching, it was a prophetic song about the life of Christ. It certainly references Old Testament prophecies about Christ, but does not seem to be an example of the preaching-teaching gift, which would prohibit us from equating prophecy with preaching-teaching based on this passage. In fact, in this instance, prophecy seemed to involve divine revelation that was beyond scripture, not derived from it. Obviously, scripture promised a coming Messiah. But it was not until Zechariah received the additional revelation that this particular child of Mary was in fact the Messiah that he prophesied based on this new revelation. He wasn’t expounding on scripture and preaching, he received instant inspiration and revelation, and “filled with the Holy Spirit” began this spontaneous prophecy, quite different than the preaching-teaching gift to which prophecy is at times equated.

    Agabus, the prophet:

    One of the most well known prophets, and best examples of a New Testament prophet was Agabus. There are two occasions in which he prophesied. If these two examples of Agabus prophesying involved him preaching and teaching God’s word, then we would have an example supporting the cessationists desire to equate the two gifts. But, Agabus did not preach or teach God’s word when he prophesied. Rather he:

    a) predicted a famine (Acts 11:27-30), and
    b) predicted Paul’s arrest (Acts 21:10-11)

    This hardly sounds like a pastor-teacher fulfilling his mandate to preach and teach by “prophesying.” It sounds more like a prophet predicting things that God shows him will happen. So in Agabus we find evidence that a prophet partakes in different activities than a pastor-teacher, implying that the two gifts are not synonymous.

    - Prophecies made about Timothy

    - The Ephesians 4 gifts

    - Joel’s promise of “women preachers” (Joel 2:28-29)

    - Four unmarried female preachers (Acts 21:8)

    Prophecies made about Timothy: In 1 Timothy 1:18 Paul charges his young friend to persevere and remain faithful, “in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you.” We learn from the second half of verse 18 that someone had prophesied that Timothy would wage good warfare and hold faith and a good conscience. Was Timothy’s experience with prophecy akin to preaching? It doesn’t seem so.

    The content of the prophecy in this instance was not scripture, as it would be in preaching. The subject of the revelation was some previously undisclosed details about Timothy’s future. As Paul says, the prophetic revelation was “about you [Timothy].”

    So Paul’s experience with prophets in this instance consisted not of preachers proclaiming God’s word, but some prophet receiving information about Timothy’s future and reporting that extra-Biblical revelation to Paul and Timothy for his edification.

    Ephesians 4 Gifts: In Ephesians 4 Paul mentions that God has given certain gifts to the church. In this list he mentions apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.

    This verse is similar to Romans 12 (see previous post) in that it differentiates prophets from teachers, implying a difference in the gifts of prophecy and preaching/teaching. Is prophecy the same as preaching and teaching? Then why are do prophets and teachers constitute two different offices, if they are precisely the same gift?

    Women preachers in Joel 2?

    In Joel 2:28-29 there is a prediction of what will happen when the Holy Spirit comes at the day of Pentecost. One of the things that will happen is that “sons and daughters will prophecy.” Paul was very careful to articulate that he did not “permit a woman to teach” but to “remain quiet” (1 Timothy 2:12) in the assembly. Yet it is very clear that women were permitted to prophesy. Joel predicted that sons and daughters, male and female servants all prophesying would be one of the indicators that the Spirit had come at Pentecost.

    Was Paul, by forbidding women to prophesy, trying to reverse or contain the scope of the Pentecost outpouring? Or, on the other hand, is it possible that a woman could actually prophecy but not teach, given that these two gifts are different in terms of functionality and authority? The latter is more likely, especially given the fact that Paul acknowledges without correction that women are prophesying in Corinth (1 Cor 11:5 [see Footnote 1] ) and tells all believers, men and women, to earnestly desire to prophesy (1 Cor 14:1).

    Philip’s daughters:

    Sticking with the theme of women prophets, we see in Acts that Philip the evangelist “had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied” (Acts 21:9). These four women had a notable prophetic ministry, given the fact that it warranted a mention in Scripture. Luke obviously saw their ministry as substantial and made a brief comment on it. It would seem far fetched that these four unmarried daughters had profound teaching and preaching ministries. Yet, this is what the cessationist understanding of prophecy would force us to conclude.

    Church at Antioch:

    When the Antioch church was formed in the persecution after Stephen’s death, there was a certain order with which Jerusalem sent aid, which proves to be instructive to our discussion here (see Acts 11).

    1. Jerusalem sent the apostle
    2. The apostle recruited the teacher
    3. Jerusalem sends the prophets

    In step one, upon hearing of the “great number” (Acts 21:11) of new converts in Antioch, Jerusalem sent Barnabas to establish this church (Acts 21:22) and provide apostolic oversight.

    Second in the order of events was the establishment of sound doctrine through the teaching and preaching gift of Paul (Acts 21:25). Thirdly, after the apostolic and teaching gifts had been established, Jerusalem sent prophets, including Agabus, to perform prophetic ministry for the church (Acts 21:27), saving the church from the effects of an impending famine.

    What is the point here? If prophecy and preaching are the same thing, why would Jerusalem have considered it necessary to send prophets to minister even after Paul’s teaching had been established “for a whole year” (Acts 21:25). If Paul had been prophesying (i.e. preaching) for a whole year, why send prophets?

    Of course the prophets came to fulfill some task that was missing in the excellent teaching of Paul. What was missing? Agabus predicted a famine. What was missing was some divinely revealed, yet extra-Biblical knowledge that never could have been arrived at from studying scripture, as diligently as Paul was doing that.

    This is what prophecy is: receiving revelation that cannot necessarily be arrived at through studying scripture, and then proclaiming that revelation to others for their edification, building up, sustenance and protection.

    However you choose to define it, I think we can be sure on one thing: prophecy is not the same thing as preaching.

    • Fantastic job sharing what the scriptures says concerning prophecy and teaching. It is clear to me they are different. Prophets do exist today and will right up to the end of man and his rule here on earth. We do need to weigh out whether it is of God or not. Thank you for being diligent.

  9. Also, to be clear,

    In light of Ephesians 2:20, it is clear that Prophecies are never raised to the level of inspired text, because Paul instructs that they should be tested, indicating they are ad hoc in nature. In light of Ephesians 2:20, it’s clear that some included new revelation that was foundational to the church. Scripture identifies a number of prophets (eg. Acts 13:1, Acts 15:32, Acts 19:6, Acts 21:8), yet never records their prophecies which suggests they were personal revelations directed at a particular person or group, and therefore not universally applicable (eg. Acts 21:10-11). They may also have simply been restatements of truth that had already been revealed2.

    The early church understood the prophecy in Joel 2:28-30 as being fulfilled. The fulfilment of this prophecy and the language of 1 Corinthians 14, implies that prophesying is available to all, which is consistent with what is described elsewhere in the New Testament (cf. 1 Corinthians 11:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22, 2 Thessalonians 2:2, Romans 12:6).

    On Ephesians 2:20, This verse states that the church is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. The Greek construction indicates that these are two distinct groups: apostles and other prophets. This implies that the church was in fact partly built on the foundation of the non-apostolic prophets. Therefore, affirming that non-apostolic prophets were error-prone results in an untenable position.

    However, this does not mean that ALL PROPHETS ARE FOUNDATIONAL. The prophets at Corinth and Thessalonica as well as other local churches founded by Paul were second generation Christians and were not witnesses to Christ’s resurrection. Non-foundational prophets were those who proclaimed truth that had already been revealed, or proclaimed prophesies of a private and personal nature, regarding practice rather than new revelation.

    One could also add that the foundational prophets discussed in Ephesians 2:20 were not necessarily those in the Book of Acts, but those in the OT PRIMARILY. I’m reminded of how everything in the OT and during Jesus’s time THAT BUILT UP THE FAITH OF BELIEVERS was also built upon the prophets PRECEDDING HIM:

    Matthew 5:17

    [ The Fulfillment of the Law ] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

    Matthew 7:12
    So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

    Matthew 11:13
    For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

    Matthew 22:40
    All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    Luke 16:16
    [ Additional Teachings ] “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

    Apart from those prophets in paticular, who was it primarily that founded the doctrine of those in the NT Church? Was it not APOSTLES PRIMARILY WHO’S WORD WAS ABOVE QUESTION? Surely, if it was all those who were prophets, then the INSTRUCTIONS IN I CORINTHIANS 14 would be invalid with having to have a prophets words WEIGHED.

    As my friend Sam said on the issue (from HEAT/LIGHT), “the Apostles recognized the authority of their own teachings and writings as the very words of God. Paul commands the church in Thessalonica to receive his words “…not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thessalonians 2:13), and points out, as was the case with denying the words of the Old Testament prophets, that anyone who disregards his words “disregards not man but God” (1 Thessalonians 4:8). Others are punished for disregarding the message of the Apostles; “If anyone refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.” (2 Thessalonians 3:14)

    Also, in 2 Peter 3:15-16, Peter equates Paul’s letters with “the other Scriptures.” Further, Acts 5:3-4 & 21, implies that lying to an Apostle is equivalent to lying to the Holy Spirit, and thus God himself!

    The New Testament is made up of the writings of the Apostles (or of those under their authority) because it is THEY, not the New Testament prophets, who are the authoritative messengers of God during that time. And since to be in the office of New Testament Apostles you had to have personally experienced the living or physically resurrected Jesus, that office (in the New Testament sense of being an authoritative messenger of Jesus) is now closed, thus no one can any longer speak the very words of God to his people, except in that they are rightfully dividing His written word (the teachings of the Prophets and Apostles) in the Scriptures.”

  10. Brother G,

    Wow! Thanks for the epistles. Now I see why Melvin started limiting your word count:)

    Remember that the Office of Prophet was a foundational office. I believe Agabus would fall into that category.

    The “interpreter” has to deal with the issue of tongues GDUB. 1Corinthians 14:26 explains this. I believe it has nothing to do with the Office of Prophet but order during the worship services.

    Thanks Dude!

  11. Brother Phill,

    This is as short as it can get (if you’d prefer, Brah……lol, lol, lol). Though from what I see, the text makes explicitly clear that in worship services that prophets were in the congregation AND Their were regulations on how they were to operate, just as there were for those interpeting tongues. No one can deny that. Those who were regularly used by the Spirit in the exercise of the gift of prophecy in the local congregation are also called prophets (1 Corinthians 14:29,32,37)……and IMHO, there is nothing to suggest that “the prophets” in Eph. 2:20 is an exhaustive reference to all possible prophets in the church. Otherwise, it contradicts the instructions for how revelation from those who are considered “prophets” should go.

    If you’d like, consider investigating these Brah……

    http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/are-prophets-foundational-to-the-church

    http://www.tffps.org/docs/The%20Foundational%20Gifts%20of%20Ephesians%202,20.pdf

    http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_4195_apostles_prophets.cfm

  12. Bro. G,

    that is one of the best writings i’ve even read about the valitiy of the prophetic office for the church today. i will study your blog more and use it to preach with in my own church.
    Pastor mark

  13. If I say to someone, “If you will repent and believe the gospel, salvation will come to your house.” Have I not encouraged and exhorted and foretold of a future event?
    Let us not forget that those in the early church did not have the completed text as we do. We know what the future holds and have no need for a prophet.

  14. 4 yearts ago I wen to the Lord about some issues in my church. I aksed Him to show me the problem was me. With my eyes closed I opened my bible as I aksed the Lord to give me a scripture that left no doubt I was hearing from Him. When I opneed the bible then my eyes I was readign Ezekiel 34 which says I will strike the Shepherd and teh shepherd will cease from feeding the flock. I aksed the Lord if He were indeed tellign me my pastor was in trouble and He were goign to remove Him to give me more confirmation. Later as I walked through my hosue I sw a picture of my pastor. As I held it I ponderd Ezekiel 34 and realzied tha twe were alwys being told in church to touch not the anointed yet if I were hearing God correctly it was my pastor who God was going to get. I was so upset I tore the picture. When I did I saw a visiion of a hadn reaching up ripping a blck robe and recalled the story of Saul tearing Samuel’s robe. And heard thees words:This day the kingdom has been torn adn given to your neighbor. Durign the next few months IO prayted and fasted. And God shgowed me more. No one would believ eme. I called several church leader tellign them God was going to take our pastor. This church was set up so that you could not talk to the pastor directly. You ha to go through Elders who often intercepted letters adn calls and never showed them to the Pastor. To make a long story short One Sunday a n associate minister made the statement that there was just somethign about our Pastor’s name. This was done in teh pulpit. I knew the word says that Jesus there is somethign about His name. I told my husband and son if the pastor did nto correc t this immediately God was going to toake him out. Wednesday night after service where the Pastor did not correct the preaher comparing him to Jesus. The Pastor died in church. I believe I have the gift of prophesy and God showned me everything because He wanted someone to know the truth ofd what happned. Every single thiung I perceived came to pass yet other shave prophesied over me and none of it happnes. SO I don;t ubnderstnad it all.

  15. Phil,
    u seemed to have been stuck here,on your NO prophets teaching.
    U should simply have come out to say..oh i missed dat!

    Phil: Please show me where I’m “stuck” and how I “missed dat”?

  16. Phil I agree with you totally; some people just lack teological training and it is a waste of time trying to teach know it alls. The prophets were for Israel. Until Israel hit the scene you don’t even here the word prophet no were in history. The verse in Hebrews says that God has spoken! What God has to say He has already said it. The canon is closed there are no more prophets after John the Baptizer according to Matt. 11:7-13. What the Pentecostals fail to realize is if they are prophets and prophets still exist then so was Budda, Confushis, and Mohammad. This is the point either Christ fulfilled all prophecy (Daniel 9:24) or not. Its an all or none policy; if this Justin is a prophet so is Joseph Smith and Mohammad. If he has a right to be called a voice of God so do they; but if Christ be the final REVELATION of God than we exclude other religions and false prophets today. You cant say this person is from God but that one isnt; then what we run into is us picking our preferances of prophets and rejecting those we dont like and this is not a fair system. Whoever I like is the voice of God but who Im not fund of is not. I dont think so.

    Now as far as the New Test. and 1 Corin. 12-14 Paul is talking about the gift not the office. When a person has this gift there is only one message “Jesus came and Jesus is returning” as simple as that. All through the book of Acts the Apostles have only one message and this is what they prophesy. Then John writes Revelation at the end of the century to confirm the Second Coming! There are no more prophets! The apostles never ordain any of there apprentence to be prophets only pastors (Paul names Titus,Timothy as pastors)!!!!! But I conclude by saying prophets of today is fine if that’s what they want to believe. BUT, that is certainly not what the Scriptures teach! May God bless all you students and applicants of His Word!!!

    If comments: Rod.Ellis@Sebc.edu

  17. I must say that brother G’s comments on 2 Corinthians are exactly what came to mind when I read this blog.

    May I gently point out that Justin comes right out and says that he doesn’t claim to be a prophet. The things he shares are things that God has given him in his times of prayer and reading the word, and Justin felt led by God to share them on his blog. And if you feel that God doesn’t speak to us these days, well then, why am I talking to Him?? A relationship is a two-way thing. We aren’t meant to talk to God and receive nothing back. I don’t see where Justin’s blog contradicts the Word of God. He has been very careful to study the Word very thoroughly. He believes that God still speaks to us. So do I.

    Phil: When someone says “thus says the Lord” and this person is not reciting Scripture then said person is then speaking for God….Justins “prophecies” are just that….Justins prophecies because they contradict Scripture. I don’t believe based on his writings that Justin has studied the word “thoroughly” as you say……God still speaks to us through His written Word Katie….something the well studied Justin has added to…..a big no no according to the Book of Revelation chapter 22 verses 18-19

    Your interpretations of scripture are just that, interpretations. I think it is harsh for people to say that Justin is a “lost lad” simply because they are following your interpretations. I believe that God does speak to His children. The question is, do we listen? Keep interpreting if you want, but be careful when you say flat-out that someone else’s interpretation is wrong.

    Phil: It doesn’t take a genious to see that Mr. Jordan is a “lost lad” Katie…As I stated previously I believe God speaks through us but I don’t believe He is speaking to us through Mr. Jordan

  18. I don’t think I would be the person to actively come out and say “no..there are no more prophets.” It is widely believed that to be a prophet you must be able to predict the future. Not entirely true. Now I will copy and paste for you:
    ————————————————————————
    As you know there are two forms of prophet: the one who tells the future, and the one who poignantly explains the “signs of the times” as a way of critiquing and calling the people back to God.

    Both are done with a sensitivity toward the Holy Spirit, and those who truly hear the Spirit speak truth which is often hard to hear.

    The first kind of prophet has always been rare, only about 10 percent of prophecy in the OT is directed toward the future. And today I think this kind of prophecy is rarer. I don’t think that it’s impossible because I believe that God still speaks today, and he could very easily tell someone something like this. However, the two parts of this future directed prophecy is: that it calls people to worship God (it is not for the prophets own gain) and it’s meant not as an individual gift (such as God tells me when to play the lottery or when to avoid getting on the plane) so much as a corporate Gift, in other words it has social implications and glorifies God.

    The second kind of prophet is much more common and I do think there are people who speak with the words and heart of God in a way that critiques the powers of our world. In fact, I think Mennonites, Quakers and Catholics have nurtured this gift among their people more consistently than a number of other traditions because of their insistence on listening to the living Spirit of God. This kind of prophecy is in line with the Jeremiah’s and Isaiah’s of to OT and of course Jesus in the NT because it is very unpopular, often rejected, and is often only accepted after it’s too late or almost too late to turn around.
    ————————————————————————
    Having posted this I hope it will bring to light the true nature of a prophet and allow readers to break free from the belief that prophets only predict the future. As a side note, not taking sides with anyone but even if a “future predicting” prophet who was legit happened upon us wouldn’t you be picking apart is prophesy and trying to disprove his word just as you are doing with this guy?

    Food for thought.

    With God anything is possible.

    And he will choose to speak through whomever he wishes in whatever way he wishes.

    And I suggest you all open your ears and your hearts for a message because the signs of the times are upon us and it isn’t for me to try and shed doubt on anyone who wishes to share the word of God or their experiences with Him.

    God Bless.

  19. i don’t know if this was touched on yet, but Paul spoke of future prophets as well as John in the book of revelations , there are specifically 2 prophets coming. and i believe this is not a parable as he already used the 2 candlesticks as the parable for the two prophets. i doubt he was being redundant. i’m not saying this man is a prophet but quite clearly it was spoken in the new testament that there would be more prophets.

  20. the prophets were not loved and taken care of untill after their deaths. if you believe the prophets were revered in their time think again. you missed alot reading the Bible. they were revered by the minority and killed by the majority. as it says the final two prophets will be killed and their bodies left in the streets for 3 and a 1/2 days. then they will rise up and be called to Heaven. Jesus Christ said the world persecuted the prophets before you to his disciples. from the teachings in the Bible, being a prophet is a wonderful thing but one that always is persecuted. God be with you all.

  21. I think Justin is right. The gifts from God are still alive. Many hear Gods voice. Why don’t you? You are a false teacher.

  22. You all speak of the prophets of the most high like you all are exsperts on the the topic. Well I have a little issue I was wondering if I could get some advice with. During the past few year I have witnessed the most imposssible events,occurances and irregularities in modern media. At first I thought it was like horriscopes, by speaking very generaly on common issues, but now it is beyond mathimatical doubt. And everything I say is already written down! and I fit all the descrirtions. It’s like the my whole world is trying to convince me I’m someone I’m not.
    If anyone has heard of “reality twisting ” or “sign forfilling” any info wouldbe great.
    Pardon my spelling.

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